Why Windows 10 is NOT suitable as workstation OS
Written by: tzzsmk - 12:28 Aug-22-2019

Hello folks,
just a short article I decided to write;

intro:
2 days ago I updated my Windows 10 from 1809 to 1903, update was "successful" (all programs, settings, drivers etc.. deleted despite I explicitly wanted to keep them), within 30 minutes after using the "fresh" OS, suddenly a BSOD, and since then SSD was visible only in BIOS - yea you hear right, Windows 10 bricked my 500GB Samsung 860 EVO - after a day of tinkering in another computer with Win7, Hiren Boot CD, MacOS etc.., I figured out drive got truly bricked, so I took it for warranty service (drive is roughly year old, with default 5-year warranty, there's plenty to cover);

so I decided to test out Windows 10 1903 (OS build 18362.30) in virtual environment to prevent another death of another drive....

and the results are truly disturbing, even for my pessimistic mindset,
fresh system without anything running, without installing any additional drivers, without touching any group policy settings, just connected to internet it's doing some shady Microsoft's background tasks on its own....

DPC Latency is CRAZY HIGH!

DPC Latency Windows 10 1903


which basically means such system is totally unusable for any latency critical tasks - such as recording music, videos etc.. which is what I primarily use my PC for;

apparently I can just boot back to my MacOS hackintosh for trouble-free flawless experience, and only attempt to install back Windows 10 IF my SSD returns from warranty service, and use it purely for games...

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00:32 Aug-30-2019

Just for you bud i ran mine for 40 minutes and here are my results https://imgur.com/a/JVaf8a4 all green :) im running latest windows with everything updated to the latest drivers,mobo stuff etc etc. Also i played LOL in the background surfed the web opened a bunch of programms, etc. Nothing ever changed

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00:40 Aug-30-2019

Also im running at again and this time the DCP is only at 250. I wonder if its just the NT Kernel that spikes to 550. Either way is 550 really a big problem?

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01:02 Aug-30-2019

This time i got 360DCP latency but it didnt access the kernel which appears to be the slowest thing but it wasnt accessed this time -.- not sure whats going on there its the lowest pic

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14:53 Aug-30-2019

550 for kernel alone is already problematic, should be around 250 max for reliable low latency audio processing,
as a matter of fact, the DPC latency is solely problem of Windows architecture design, not Linux or MacOS, which is one of reasons many musicians and studios have been using Macs for decades...

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15:36 Aug-30-2019

True but it doesnt mean that windows isnt suitable as a workstation OS either it's fine perfectly fine. for specific workloads like music and whatnot i dont know cause im not familiar with that. I was never able to get that high 550 again though must be a specific issue that occurs with something on the NT kernel

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17:58 Aug-30-2019

it's essence of WindowsNT kernel functionality, it cycles through every process, device driver, host service etc.. and it goes trippin occasionally

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17:59 Aug-30-2019

I know but the MAC never does that? Like it never has atleast some issues? It's always perfect im kiddin i know windows can be shet at times but does the mac do much better at this latency thing?

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18:09 Aug-30-2019

indeed MacOS has issues too (it can catch virus, it can freeze, it can fail to boot etc..), but in terms of audio, there are so many things possible on MacOS which Windows can only dream of such as:
using multiple audio interfaces simultaneously
using multiple audio applications simultaneously
using midi over ethernet without any additional drivers or software
using class compliant midi and audio devices without any additional software, drivers or reboot
replugging devices without need to reboot or reconfiguring them
it's just that MacOS in its core was designed with such tasks in mind, while Microsoft still hasn't even been able to provide low latency audio mode

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18:11 Aug-30-2019

Wait Mac's can actually get viruses? I thought that was legit the one thing they were immune to but i always assumed it was bs also on an unrelated note psychoman's friend ALSO HAD HIS SSD bricket by the windows 10 update this is ridilious what is microsoft doing LOL

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19:28 Aug-30-2019

yes - obviously the viruses are different (not .exe or .dll injection stuff) but it's really easy to infect browser or even entire system (with system protection disabled, something like developer mode in windows)


and that situation about Windows 10 is ridiculous - as a matter of fact the "free upgrade/update" advertised before now shows being apparently quite expensive when it bricks couple 100 bucks worth SSDs

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20:14 Aug-30-2019

Actually what happened with psycho's friend it wasnt the big giant 1903 update but a smaller update like when you check your windows version in system n about, his friend was updating from 18362.209 to something i assume its that update that fixed the latency issues actually im on that update at 18362.295 his friend

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20:15 Aug-30-2019

probably got bricked by trying to apply that update but luckily his SSD survived and he was able to reformat it he told him to shut down the PC,unplug,wait,replug and it showed up so he cleared and/reformateed and survived i wonder if its this specific 1903 update that's bricking things luckily im on latest

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07:39 Aug-25-2019

I only apply security updates and leave the rest to rot.

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15:05 Aug-25-2019

that may be a way to go I guess, but still the security stuff is mostly nonsense imo

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10:20 Aug-26-2019

I know ppl that haven't updated anything on their os in 5 years and they don't have any issues. So when ppl say updates are a cancer I understand where they are comming from.

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03:56 Aug-23-2019

Apparently in the latest update it got fixed. To be fair, i hate the 1903 update. Every release there seems to be one issue that isn't noticeable on the NT kernel side with Windows.


Thankfully i'm on 1809 LTSC with everything updated. It's flawless.

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08:05 Aug-23-2019

yup I read that somewhere too, the major latency issues are fixed by now for 1903;
I was on 1809 LTSC and did an upgrade - just in case you'd consider it - all apps and settings will be deleted because LTSC and PRO aren't compatible lol

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22:57 Aug-23-2019

Yeah. They aren't because reasons. And i'm waiting for the next LTSC release in 2021. Hopefully it'll be very stable like this release and the previous ones.

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15:22 Aug-22-2019

which drivers/services are causing the highest latency ?

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17:55 Aug-22-2019

in general, everything related to NT kernel, which is the very core of Windows

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12:45 Aug-22-2019

I tested latency on my 1903 build a while ago and massive improvements were seen when I switched from USB3 to USB2. I think it was your suggestion. Over an hour of running the latencymon the DPC latency did not spike.
Needless to say, the system is fully capable of recording video and audio real-time.
Drive "bricking" could be an electrical or drive fault. I've had an SSD fail on a win7 machine after a bunch of reboots. SSDs are waaay more fragile than HDDs in that regard, IMO.

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12:51 Aug-22-2019

what's the highest DPC you get? anything above 500 microseconds is a problem for low-latency multitrack audio recording

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12:42 Aug-22-2019

My results definitely aren't that bad. I have a ton of programs open and have a game running in the background. I've tested for 6 minutes so far and will say if it spikes like yours after my match. I think it might just be because of your virtual machine

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12:51 Aug-22-2019

sounds reasonable, virtual machine can definitely add up a bit, but not this much

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13:38 Aug-22-2019

I just ran it for 54 minutes with a ton of programs and FireFox windows / tabs opened, with that Nvidia replay thing recording and while playing CSGO. It only spiked once for each of them and that was while loading into the match for me. So I'm pretty sure it's not that big of an issue if it was only once in almost an hour. Link of mine. I wouldn't consider Windows the best OS though, because the Kernel does have a lot of legacy code and the code could be updated a lot more to make it more optimised.

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13:49 Aug-22-2019

anything above 500 is problem, seeing you got there interrupt 2361 is already problematic in that regard;
IF you had 100 000 (?!) then it's supercrazy - but probably one single spike only :)

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13:55 Aug-22-2019

Both only happened once from what I could see and that was when the game was loading into the match. I had the program open on a second monitor, so I could still see it. CSGO does tend to freeze for a bit while loading. The program should rather provide a log of how many times it spiked, because then you would get a more clear picture of how the system actually performs. Only once each in an hour doesn't look that bad to me though. If it was constantly high or it spiked a ton then that would definitely be a problem

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