Control
Written by: david988 - 21:06 Aug-29-2019

Control 

BENCHMARK

Rig

Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz

Nividia GTX 1080 8GB

16GB ddr3 1600mhz

Western Digital 1TB

Samsung SyncMaster SA450 24inch 16:10 1920x1200 60Hz

Settings

Far Object Detail- High

Texture Resolution- Ultra

Texture Filtering- High

Shadow Resolution- High

Shadow Filtering- Medium

Volumetric Lighting- High

SSAO- On

Screen Space Reflections Quality- High

Global Reflections- High

MSAA- 4x

Film Grain- On

FPS

min-45

avg.-60

max-90

 

Followers 1043
GD Rank 27
Reputation 80
Total Blog Views: 120,573
Title Hits Date
Rainbow Six Siege 16 Aug-16-2021
Back 4 Blood Beta 15 Aug-15-2021
Zombie Army 4: Dead War 659 Jul-26-2021
Necromunda: Hired Gun 436 Jun-19-2021
View all by this member View all

Login or Register to join the debate

Rep
13
Offline
11:04 Aug-30-2019

What driver did you use?

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
12:22 Aug-30-2019

the latest ones 436.15

2
Rep
19
Offline
01:34 Aug-30-2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niQfeglwDZ4 interesting video about control (console versions) from DF they go into the reflections and stuff apperently there is some form of light ray tracing(cone tracing) already baked into the relfections!

0
Rep
19
Offline
03:30 Aug-30-2019

To add more to it the game gets absolutetly hammered on console hardware ps4 dropping as low as 11fps...with people saying there are massive stutters and freezes(probably due to the HDD's in consoles) and horrible load times due to HDD(i have like 5 seconds load times) and someone even saw it drop to 8fps with huge

1
Rep
19
Offline
03:32 Aug-30-2019

levels and fight scenes in some parts the game spawns a lot of enemies basically unplayable performance! So yeah if you got hardware comparable to consoles atleast in some ways (not that many people have) you are looking at 30fps as the best case scenario or even lower in some parts the game is also poorly optimized

0
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
05:41 Aug-30-2019

Well consoles... I mean xbox one s still has ddr3 memory and first gen gcn... No wonder it underperforms so many years later.

1
Rep
19
Offline
05:51 Aug-30-2019

I think its also an issue of them running out of bandwidth as they say in the video and you can also see it happening that similar effect happens when you run out of VRAM on the GPU on a PC game with loading the VRAM with too much textures something i experienced in RE2 with my rx480 by maxing the vram out it's horribl

0
Rep
19
Offline
05:53 Aug-30-2019

And when theyre doin that fps test both of those areas drop my fps by about 20-40% both of them are the most demanding areas ive run into so far dippin me even below 60 on the mins down to 50...its crazy how some areas are completely unoptimized but others run fine that power plant area and that atrium area are brutal

0
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
05:56 Aug-30-2019

Yeah, when you run out of Vram you fall back to system memory which is much slower. But on consoles the Vram and the system ram are not really separate so when a console runs out if memory it goes to hdd maybe?? That would absolutely destroy the performance.

1
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
06:03 Aug-30-2019

I am surprised how such issue passed the QA... One would think that optimising vram on fixed hardware isnt something of great challenge.

1
Rep
19
Offline
06:07 Aug-30-2019

Its no wonder they only showed the PC footage prior probably running it on a 9900k system with an rtx 2080ti...if anyone saw console footage like this it sure would have changed a lot of peoples mind i mean all you have to do is go over to the remedy forums people are pissed you know since epic has no forums Xd

1
Rep
19
Offline
06:19 Aug-30-2019

Also the consoles have like what the base has a 7870 ish and the pro/one x has rx 570 ish i mean idunno about the 7870 but i know the rx 570=rx480 still holds up really well at 1080p 60fps high/ultra in most games i played earlier this year(except for metro and a few) ... i believe its the CPU thats an issue

0
Rep
19
Offline
06:36 Aug-30-2019

Also no i explained it wrong or perhaps you read my comment wrong they're not running out of VRAM they're running out of memory bandwidth or cpu bandwidth so not the vram but something else is the problem. The hitching/skipping that occurs is similar to what happens when you run out of VRAM on PC by filling it with

0
Rep
19
Offline
06:37 Aug-30-2019

too many textures. But the thing is this game barely uses over 3GB of VRAM on max settings so clearly the consoles arent running out of VRAM. Theyre running out of bandwidth on the CPU side or the memory (RAM) side but nevertheless the issue still looks similar to what happens when you run out of VRAM but thats not it!

0
Rep
19
Offline
06:39 Aug-30-2019

And i know RAM and VRAM are shared on the consoles but dont they have 12GB? Im really not sure what is the issue or what's happening but i dont think its the VRAM and theres no way this game is filling up 12GB especially since the console version looks like medium settings or low even so idunno

0
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
06:46 Aug-30-2019

yeah the cpu is a problem too


the xbox one s has 12 CUs with only 68.22 GB/s memory bandwith with 8gb ddr3


the ps4's main advantage that it uses 8 gb gddr5 and a more mature gcn2.0 gpu with 18 CUs and 176.0 GB/s memory bandwith


the ps4 pro uses a lower clocked rx480 equivalent with 36 CUs and 8gb gddr5 on 217.6 GB/s bandwith.


the xbox one x is the strongest it has a gpu with 40 CUs activated and 12gb gddr5 on 326.4 GB/s bandwidth it is stonger than an rx580 in theory


not sure about the cpus ill check

1
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
06:48 Aug-30-2019

I have no idea how the memory gets allocated between the cpu and the gpu, but 8GB memory is not too much for both cpu and gpu to share.

1
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
06:53 Aug-30-2019

ok so both xbox one (s) and X use the same cpu an 8core amd jaguar cpu clocked at 1,7 ghz (lol) while the X version has it clocked at 2,3 ghz

0
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
06:55 Aug-30-2019

turns out the ps4/pro has actually weaker cpu
it uses the same thing clocked lower, 1.6 ghz / 2,14 ghz

0
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
06:56 Aug-30-2019

the 5400 rpm hdd isn't helping either :D

1
Rep
19
Offline
07:15 Aug-30-2019

Yeah 8GB shared isnt a lot probably why they are packing the new ones with 24 although even that isnt a lot they should do 32 but they will probably "update" them again in 2,3 years. Even my phone has 1,8-2,4Ghz clock speed with 8 cores Dx I hope new ones have a baby 3700 even if its running only at 3Ghz :P

2
Rep
19
Offline
09:38 Aug-30-2019

Also another thing i found out that running the game at 1440p resolution and 1080p render resolution esentially upscaling it restores a lot of performance loss with minimal quality/visual loss. It appears from everything ive read 1440p seems to be killer here even 2080tis are falling below 80fps with no RTX on.

0
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
22:57 Aug-29-2019

It really does look very good but damn it is so demanding, my poor 1060 probably couldn't manage 30 FPS

1
Rep
19
Offline
23:03 Aug-29-2019

Remedy did an amazing job with the looks of this game but it's a real demanding cookie i would say it stacks up there with Exodus for me in terms of performance numbers so if you played that with your system your numbers should be the same probably within 30-60fps at 1080p? dx11 of course but this is guesswork :)

2
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
23:12 Aug-29-2019

Maybe in a few years we can replay it with max settings :)

0
Rep
19
Offline
23:38 Aug-29-2019

It runs okay for me at 1440p 60fps avg max settings(same as exodus) (msaa=off) bigger areas at 80fps avg give or take. But i assume you meant turning RTX on? Then yeah thats a whole other story XD more like 20-30FPS with everything maxed out there Probably only the 2080Super/2080ti can do 60+ with everything on max XD

1
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
00:34 Aug-30-2019

you can play it just medium settings i at medium have 110fps and at low 150fps so you would have 60 at medium no problem

2
Rep
43
Offline
23:35 Aug-29-2019

yeah, dx12 is a stuttering mess (at least with my 1070)

0
Rep
19
Offline
23:39 Aug-29-2019

Yeah dx11 always runs better for me whether it be exodus,re2 or this game but if you got RTX cards you are kinda stuck with dx12 if you want RTX ON! of course for me its gonna be RTX OFF! always atleast for a few years

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:17 Aug-29-2019

Lighting looks as if it's DXR/RTX/ray tracing, no?

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:20 Aug-29-2019

Nope standard lighting you are looking at screen space reflections and global reflections they are very good/detailed in this game i havent seen RTX atleast only from screenshots but it seems pointless with how good this game already looks in the lighing department.

3
Rep
19
Offline
21:28 Aug-29-2019

Oh and volumetric lighting of course with a bit of SSAO. I dont know which SSAO this is since it's only labeled "SSAO" but it doesnt seem like hbao+ its a pretty light version of it imo the lighing is top notch and reflections are much better than quantum breaks reflections were in 2016. But to each is own Dx

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:44 Aug-29-2019

The game has some RTX as StevenPlebster said, but I was wondering if it's on or off as I really can't see the difference at all and was wondering if that is the performance he is getting with or without ray tracing on as I don't see any of the settings mentioning ray tracing.

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:50 Aug-29-2019

He's got a 1080 he cant turn RTX on and neither can i while i have better performance at 1440p but only slightly better this game hammers performance at max even with or without 4xmsaa (only seems to hit by about 25%) what im getting is 50min,65avg,80max and in smaller areas like the first level 70min,85avg,102max

2
Rep
19
Offline
21:51 Aug-29-2019

And yes i KNOW tehnically i can run ray tracing and so can david but trust me it destroys performance i didnt bother enabling it but i assume im gonna get less than 15 fps maybe 30 at best and yes stuff like 1660ti or whatever can also do RTX basically pascal/turing can do it but turing has much less of a hit than

2
Rep
5
Offline
21:33 Aug-29-2019

I believe only realtime reflections are using DXR in this title.

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:38 Aug-29-2019

Yep only the realtime reflections use it but there are many static relfections or however you wanna say it also quantum break was very good at showing off reflections too. Imo unless you wanna see like videos ingame or something reflected inreal time the standard stuff looks amazing already

0
Rep
116
Offline
21:44 Aug-29-2019

The game is definitely a looker. Most of the surfaces seem to be reflective and I think RTX works on moving debris and characters during combat. Also from the screenshots I've seen of the game, glass windows reflect the background realistically as well.
I wouldn't say RTX is necessarily going to add much to this title even in terms of reflections as baked in ones are pretty good already.

1
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:39 Aug-29-2019

I know that the game has RTX, but I can't tell the difference when they are on or off and I'm also wondering if that is the performance with RTX on or off.

0
Rep
116
Offline
21:41 Aug-29-2019

He's got 1080 so I'd bet its without RTX.

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:43 Aug-29-2019

without i forgot that this is on dx11 and ray tracing is only avalible with dx12 + you can see peformance i got that should be answer enouth is it ray traced or not

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:45 Aug-29-2019

Cmon Psycho how could he have it on he has a 1080 XD. He cant enable RTX but as ive said the reflections look this good in the game by default all RTX seems to add from what ive seen is REAL time reflections like video in game playing on walls or objects they did like a video on Nvidia's channel showing it off

2
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:45 Aug-29-2019

Well it's not really an answer, for example just chatting with NeoGPX, a gtx 1660Ti can run BF5 with DXR/RTX on high settings and all the other settings on high at 1080p and get 40-70fps...


So you don't need a rtx GPU to run ray tracing as long as it's not heavy.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:47 Aug-29-2019

But yeah with DX11 that answers my question.

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:49 Aug-29-2019

yea 10 and 16 series can run rtx but quit poorly didnt you saw my Quake RTX Benchmark?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iZjQQtpoyI&t=244s

2
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:50 Aug-29-2019

Quake has heavy RTX.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxSgF4qoiIE
Look at BF5 for example. At high settings, high DXR/RTX settings you can run it with a gtx 1660Ti at 1080p with 40-70fps.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:52 Aug-29-2019

Time stamps in the description.

0
Rep
5
Offline
21:51 Aug-29-2019

That's highly unlikely. I call bull on that claim. I really doubt 1660Ti can run RTX on high at 40-70 and get the same performance as 2060 Super.

2
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
21:52 Aug-29-2019

Look at the video I sent above.

0
Rep
5
Offline
21:59 Aug-29-2019

Yeah I stand corrected on that. It's interesting.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:00 Aug-29-2019

I call bullshet on that video to me it looks like 2060 performance 1660ti has lower performance than the 1080ti with DXR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkY-20kdXl0 skip to 10:30

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:04 Aug-29-2019

And thats the best case scenario for the 1080ti while standing on a train at 1080p resolution and doing nothing both the 2060 and 1080ti are closer to 30fps while on avg with RTX on high. the 1660ti is more of a 15fps on high card. at 1440p the 1080ti gets murdered and theres no point to turning it on honestly

0
Rep
5
Offline
22:06 Aug-29-2019

I now don't know what to believe.
I'd guess BFV's implementation is a little less demanding maybe?

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:08 Aug-29-2019

Here is more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNzi8jJ4VWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPMqaGnGRco


I doubt everyone is lying.


@StevenPlebster
Ray Tracing got nerfed hard in most games it was implemented after launch to make it run better on GPUs and as I've said many times as it stands ray tracing is a gimmick. In the future when they do it better it will become good, but we will still be sacraficing extra GPU performance for it.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:09 Aug-29-2019

So yes in BF5 it's quite lite, until you set it on ultra.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:10 Aug-29-2019

Also there is that little thing called drivers... nvidia never TRULY supported their previous gen gpus ever since Kepler...

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:11 Aug-29-2019

Metro exodus XDDD 8 fps lul okay it appears exodus smashes it the most but i will try turning it on since these are reflections but i expect to go down to 30 with how demanding this game is in general i dont have a lot of headroom but i also dont see the point either with how good reflections already look.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:13 Aug-29-2019

And i cant verify the BFV numbers since i dont own that game and i wont pirate it just to run the ray tracing in it i dont care ill report by how much my fps drops in this game since they both use reflections i cant say those video are all lies but i dont trust them personally the exodus numbers are correct though

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:14 Aug-29-2019

Yup metro in general even with RTX off smashes even RTX 2080 Supers at 1080p! The RTX 2080 Super at 1080p ultra no ray tracing in metro gets 62fps average, so yeah, not surprised that the gtx 1660Ti is not doing well.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:19 Aug-29-2019

tell me about it it's the goddamn sand level/desert area. At 1440p in the opening area im getting nearly a 100fps avg and then boom you get to the volga and sand levels and 60fps here we come it is similar in Control aswell the open areas smash performance by 20-40% even though these levels are much smaller than exodus

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:23 Aug-29-2019

Probably, my point was mainly about battlefield 5, but the second and third video I sent had other games I couldn't find another BF5 only gtx 1660Ti video.


As I said if the RTX is light even non-RTX GPUs can run it.


And since I can't tell the difference between RTX on and off visually in Control I asked if it was on or off.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:29 Aug-29-2019

Yeah your question makes more sense now but its off i can tell the game looks similar to what my final image is also no such luck with RTX here when everything is enabled and maxed out im getting below 30FPs mostly 20-30FPS. I found someone with 1080ti footage at 1440p and his numbers are in line althought he is about

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:30 Aug-29-2019

20% lower since hes running high settings aka 4xmsaa aka ultra since thats what they max out but its demanding as hell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xTFXUYQu-c Oh and yeah you CANNOT turn that fakin motion blur off I TRIED everything even messing with the .ini no such luck its extremely ugly and annoying

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:32 Aug-29-2019

His 1080ti is running hot as hell though btw 84C might not be hot for some GPU's but it is hot for Pascal so his frequency is a bit lower im running 2k Mhz and above usually at 65C. So my numbers are 20-40% higher in this "opening" level but my god that second level smashes it just like exodus with a avg 60 fps perf

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:33 Aug-29-2019

Pretty much 2080 super levels since the 2080 super is just an overclocked 2080 and im running a decent overclock here and yeah i guess you could also overclock the 2080 super and push it past 2,000Mhz aswell although apperently it does better with memory overclocks

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:39 Aug-29-2019

Damn that much of a hit in performance I swear if not running side by side I can't tell if RTX is on or off and even when running side by side I often don't even see a difference in some areas... not worth it at all for this game imo.


And if the rtx 2080 super benefit from memory overclocks it means it's starved for bandwidth, which is sad, because that means we need GDDR7/GDDR6X... or perhaps HBM3/HBM2E.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:22 Aug-29-2019

fakin nvidia and amd can we please atleast get 80-100% boost next gen? Otherwise im gonna be running at 30fps next year and i imagine even 2080ti owners but i guess people will say turn down settings i feel like when you spend for the high end you should get high end performance? But its obvious its no longer the case

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:29 Aug-29-2019

Well the question is NOT of "can", but of... of... what they are willing to give us...


Like The RX 5700XT if it was priced correctly at 300-330$, it would have been a 70-80% improvement over the rx 590 for about the same price considering that gddr6 is 11$ per GB and GDDR5(X) is 6.5$ per GB and that the rx 5700xt has a 8% bigger die... But AMD have increased their profit margins. From 2012 to 2016 they operated on 23% gross profit margins, in 2017 it's 34% and in 2018 it's 38% and that's gross profit margins, the GPUs and CPUs are selling at higher profit margins that the gross profit margins and according to their 2018 financial report they expect even higher profit margins for 2019...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:32 Aug-29-2019

AMD's R&D in 2012 was slightly lower than the R&D in 2018 and their total expenses in 2012 were actually slightly higher than in 2018... btw... and in 2011 they were much higher, even higher in 2010... and yet they sold us 350$ 6970sat 389mm^2 in times where they were releasing a new architecture every year... oh well...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:33 Aug-29-2019

When it comes to ray tracing chances as that instead of extra cuda cores just in general instead of having higher cuda core count they will add more ray tracing cores, so at least we might not get any performance drop from ray tracing in some games? Perhaps...


But affordable(200-400$) and well performing ray tracing GPUs? Not any time soon and even when the time comes, we'd be missing extra performance due to there being ray tracing cores instead of more cuda cores.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:37 Aug-29-2019

The numbers MASON what do they mean ?!?! xD but yeah i think you know what im talking about here if im getting 30FPS in next years games so will the 5700xt since its like what 5-10% slower than standard 1080ti. I dont think we will fall that far certainly not at 1080p but i really hope next years or two years GPU's

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:39 Aug-29-2019

are a lot faster. I dont care too much for price or how much im getting milked i just want higher performance. obviously i dont wanna pay 1,3K for shet like 2080ti but seriously 80-100% uplift or there is no point of purchasing GPU hardware and yeah affordability and GPU's isnt the case anymore nvidia and now amd are

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:40 Aug-29-2019

trying to kill affordability. Sure the 5700xt looks good in context compared to 590 or whatever rx card but its already aging like an old ripe fruit. Truly affordability has gone down the drain as well as performance uplifts with it

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:47 Aug-29-2019

Hey from this I'm finally happy that someone gets that you need at least 80-100% performance improvement to call it an upgrade.


In the past 5 years, people have been conditioned to think that 15-30% is an amazing performance increase and it's not, it's garbage...


Also the rx 5700XT would look great compared to the rx 590 if it didn't cost 400$, but 300$


And both performance uplifts and affordability have gone down the drain due to people buying everything AMD, intel and Nvidia sh!ts out...


AMD, Intel and Nvidia can make huge performance uplifts every generation(2-3x years), but they choose not to, so that they can milk us and instead spread it out for a longer period of time, in times where they all are getting record income, sales and everything... just like AAA companies

2
Rep
19
Offline
22:43 Aug-29-2019

But also yeah as a final note you saw the video with the 1080ti right? It looks really good even without RTX on you can see relfections everywhere visible when he gets near the "shelter" door sure its a bit blurry and it isnt as clear as when RTX is on but imo its still fine. Yeah RTX slashes my fps in half BUT

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:46 Aug-29-2019

perhaps nvidia will release a driver to mitigate some issues. The thing about comparing this game to BFV is this game has 5 options for ray tracing (i dont know how many BFV had) it's got all of these: RTX reflections, RTX transparent reflections,RTX indirect diffuse lighting,RTX contact shadows and RTX debris

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:48 Aug-29-2019

So it's got all three of the usual suspect: GI,shadows and reflections aswell as debris. It makes sense why this hammers performance by 50-60% compared to BFV's light hit(i dont know what it is) as this game uses all 3 forms of RTX. The actual with RTX on is noticable but imo not necessery as the game looks great

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:49 Aug-29-2019

And yes, just goes to show that even without Ray Tracing we have amazing reflections and lighting, which is one of the many reasons I'm against Ray Tracing until there are NO negatives about it, even if it looks worse.


And as I said Nvidia never Trully supports older architectures, sorry mate.


Same with AMD, but they were stuck on GCN for 8 years, so it's not like they had anything else to support. :D
The hd6000 and older series got proper support dropped all the way back in 2013 though, and "official" support dropped in 2015...

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:56 Aug-29-2019

Also i forgot to mention there are presets for RTX levels too and if i turn off the GI or better known as RTX lighting and RTX transparent reflections and put it on "high" my fps hit isnt that bad. Went from 60avg to 40-45avg with 35mins. Still this game is annoyingly diffcult and id like to maintain 60+fps atleast

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:23 Aug-30-2019

Actually i found a good compromise for keeping RTX ON! Everything except the RTX indirect lighting i have on and on high and i turn the render resolution to 1080p and resolution to 1440p so basically it's upscaling it and this way i sacrifice a bit of image quality for much better performance and i can keep RTX on

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:24 Aug-30-2019

running at 60fps avg on max (no lighting setting) thats not too bad. But if i touch that lighting setting im dropping down to the 40s on avg again...either way the only good looking things are the reflections,shadows and debris flying around. the GI present in the game already looks good enough with RealTime GI.

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:26 Aug-30-2019

This game struggles hard when running native and especially at 1440p people even with 2080ti's are dropping down to 75fps on avg without RTX. It appears to have the same issue as quantum break where its better to run a slightly lower resolution adn then upscale sacrifice image quality and gain a lot of performance back

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
13:27 Aug-30-2019

nice. I agree balancing the settings in demanding games to achieve best visuals for the performance is much better than just using the medium/high/ultra preset.

3
Rep
19
Offline
13:32 Aug-30-2019

Also take a look at the video i linked above if you have time it's from digital foundry on the console versions of the game there is already some form of ray tracing baked into the reflections probably why they look even better than QB's did (cone tracing) i will say after spending with with RTX in this game it might

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:34 Aug-30-2019

be the only one that has a good version of it in. I think it probably comes down to the fact that Remedy actually put the time in to make the reflections look a lot better over the static/cube map ones while those look good the RTX cleans up those rough-shadowy outlines a lot and reflects videos played in game off of

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:36 Aug-30-2019

mirrors/mirrored surfaces. The shadows are cleaned up a bit but honestly they look amazing already shadows might be the most useless one i barely noticed the difference in SOTTR i cant comment on the lighing as i couldnt get it to run at above 30-40fps in either exodus or this game but the default GI already looks good

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
13:34 Aug-30-2019

yeah I saw it, it's brutal. XD

2
Rep
19
Offline
13:38 Aug-30-2019

Yeah and they tested those two specific areas i have had performance issues in aswell those too are brutal and probably the worst performing areas of the game so far. Either way they did a great job with the reflections here but im sure DF will do a video on the PC version and RTX and all the modes of it

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:40 Aug-30-2019

Also i dont know if youve seen this but AMD's marketshare is higher than Nvidia's since q1 2014 Dx Team Red is on the rise it's actually scary reviewers gave Zen2 good reviews and then NAVI got good reviews compared to Super cards and now everyone thinks they're an amazing deal Dx Maybe Nvidia will wake up finally...

0
Rep
19
Offline
13:45 Aug-30-2019

Oh whoops it was q3 2014 but here is the link about it https://wccftech.com/amd-overtakes-nvidia-marketshare-q2-2019/ oh and another pro tip if you're gonna read this later dont read the comments. I already got stage 4 terminal cancer just by glancing at them this type of stuff always brings out the worst trolls

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
13:58 Aug-30-2019

Yeah I saw. Which just proves my point, people buy what those unqualified reviewers tell them to buy... -_-


Also the age of high-quality AMD GPU PCBs is over... I thought the RX 5700(XT) will have a scaled down Radeon VII PCB, which uses high-end components...


Nope it turns out that the RX 5700(XT) PCBs either use 5 phase medium quality VRMs and controllers or use 10 super low-end quality VRMs and controllers....


Which means that the RX 5700(XT) has very, very cheap PCBs, which means that they are even more overpriced than I thought they are.


If I go and analyse the RX 5700XT PCBs, I wouldn't be surprised if it's 20-30$ TOTAL...


Basically AMD GPU PCBs are now the same quality as Nvidia's...

2
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
13:58 Aug-30-2019

of course there are good 3rd party PCBs if you want to pay RTX 2070 Super money for a rx 5700XT(500-530$ without the TAXes)...

2
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:02 Aug-30-2019

So basically the RX 5700XT's 251mm^2 die is 100$ at 0% profit margin.


The PCB is let's say 25$(in the middle between 20 and 30) without bulk discount, the stock cooler is 5$...


88$ for the 8GB GDDR6 VRAM without bulk discount.


The card for AMD at 0% profit margin without bulk discounts is roughly 218$.


I don't count Bulk discounts as AMD gets bulk discounts, but then they make bulk discounts. My mother's store gets 13% bulk discount for 800-1000 units bought in bulk, I imagine that bigger stores that order more get 20% and AMD gets around 20%.

1
Rep
19
Offline
14:15 Aug-30-2019

At best it shoulda been like a 350€ for the 5700xt instead of the current 550€ AIB models sit at for me... i bought the rx 480 for like what 230€? 280€ was the 8GB model thats an amazing perfm jump considering 5700xt isnt that far off the my 1080ti at worst 5-15% slower but it costs the same and the 2070S was l

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:19 Aug-30-2019

Yes, but the difference is that the rx 480 had a PCB with higher quality than most gtx 1080s and even gtx 1080Tis, the rx 5700/XT has normal/mid-range to even sub-mid-range quality PCB.


Just like you said 3rd party RX 5700XT at best(for AMD), at worst(for us) should have been 350 euro, not 550 euro for a ASUS strix 5 phase GPU that indeed has high quality compontents but it's a two stage 5 phase...


And the reason RX 5700XTs can't clock higher on both the core and ESPECIALLY on the Memory is the crappy VRMs and PCB design... I thought clocks were process node limited, they are NOT, they are crappy PCB limited...

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:20 Aug-30-2019

was like 650€ all of these choices suck for the price and they all perform the same i think on paper i like a bigger vram buffer and 1080ti has faster memory even the gddr5x on it is faster than gddr6 overall higher clocks but meh in practise all 3 cards perform similarly or within 10-20% of each other

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:23 Aug-30-2019

Yes both the Pulse and Evoke only models that are even out yet i know i saw the red devil havent watched a review of it (its also not avalaible) on the strix you mean theyre doing 5x2 parallel VRM's right? That's ASUS favourite thing now even my mobo has it lowers transient response but typically VRM's run hotter due

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:24 Aug-30-2019

to the nature of lower phase count. In practise or daily use its only like 10C higher than normal nothing crazy but lower transient response is better imo i dont like stupid 16 phases where you can make coffee before the final load voltage sets in its super annoying for overclocks but it does keep temps slightly lower

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:25 Aug-30-2019

They put two power stages and two inductors on one PWM signal, instead of having each a PWM signal, yes.

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:26 Aug-30-2019

But then again you sacrifice ripple effect which is always higher or bigger on lower phase count imo its a necesseary sacrifice ripple doesnt tend to cause issues with OC's where as a high transient response sure does. it doesnt matter if you ripple a lot if you are only ripplin for less than few MS. But if it takes

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:28 Aug-30-2019

forever to reach the final voltage you are almost always required to dial in higher voltages to adjust for the transient response to collect it's shet. But thats where my knowledge of VRM's ends there is a lot more that goes into it but ASUS "new" design theyve been using for 2 or 3 years is atleast better than doubler

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:30 Aug-30-2019

doubler or doubled phases gigabyte typicially runs i understand why and yeah temps will be lower even on a doubler a bit since with parallel VRM's you are esentially packing them with 2 power stages (they use even 3 power stages) so they BUFF a lower phase count into oblivion. In some cases they overload them with pha

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:30 Aug-30-2019

Yeah, but the problem in ASUS's case is the lack of capacitors... so there will be higher ripple even with those 2 stage 1 PWM high-end phases... so sad... -_-


And yes I know that they love to use 1x PWM signal for two phases, they've been doing that since 2014 actually.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:31 Aug-30-2019

Changing the topic for a second: Windows update just killed my friend's SSD who else got his ssd killed by a windows update? ?_?


I told him to unplug it, run the PC, then stop the PC, plug it in the same port and try again and then repeat that, but plug it in another port, but I will probably have to go and see his PC in person or he'll have to bring hig PC to me...

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:32 Aug-30-2019

Yeah the ripple is always higher its a sacrifice they basically risk everything for lower transient response and it ends up working a lot better over gigabytes low ripple higher phase count solution (gigabyte seems to have the "best" VRMs on paper currently but performance is lacking on their GPU's and boards

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:33 Aug-30-2019

HOLY SHET IT JUST HAPPENED TO TZZSM a few days/weeks ago HOW IS THIS HAPPENING TO EVERYONE Dx he said it was bricked and it was an 860 evo with 5 year warranty so he sent it to get repaired

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:35 Aug-30-2019

Wait theyre lacking capacitors? Please dont tell me they actually put less than 16 on the strix? fakin imbecils if they actually did that maybe they could get away with 14 or 12 but they are overloading the phases... 5x2 should atleast have a good overhead on top if it like 16? or am i incorrect on this?

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:36 Aug-30-2019

Unless they are running those new fancy 70Amp power stages like on x570 but that shet is expensive and knowing asus they wont stick that in anything under the 2070Super or 2080Super

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:38 Aug-30-2019

They are running those "smart" power stages that are rated for 60AMPs, but can actually go up to 72-74AMPs, but they got only 7 capacitors on the front-end(5 of which are for the Vcore phases), 10 caps on the back-end and they should be 10 caps on both the front-end and back-end...

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:46 Aug-30-2019

Ah theyre the 60AMP ones those are still solid "smart" not sure Dx but only 12 in total? Stupid the ripple might be bad but which PCB are we talking about here this is the 5700xt right? i kinda got lost cause i slightly remember watching buildzoids video on it (idunno if you know him) and he said the strix looked good

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:46 Aug-30-2019

cause they put something on it that allows you to basically kill the card LOL

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:53 Aug-30-2019

yes it's the rx 5700XT Strix and IDK what they put on it that can kill the card... Are you referring to the header-slots where you can monitor the voltage and increase it? Sure it's cool, but that's for LN2 as the PCB isn't good enough to do anything with air, maybe custom water cooling loop with a good plate?

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:43 Aug-30-2019

Powercolor is running 50AMP power stages... but it's a doubler and thus an actual 10 phase and has 10 capacitors both in the front-end and back-end, but the components are basically sub-mid-range quality if not even high-ish low-end quality... though they can get away with it due to the doublers, still doesn't matter... as AMD used to have top notch high-end components on their Reference PCBs and almost all 3rd party boards, except the super cheap ones.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:49 Aug-30-2019

The Sapphire Pulse RX5700XT has probably the best PCB considering that it costs only 10$ more than the reference. It's got good mid-range components all around all the necessary capacitors, it has no doublers, no two stage one pwm signal, just stright forward mid-range PCB done right and with dedicated radiator for the VRM under the big cooler as they knew it needed it.

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:50 Aug-30-2019

A doubler will still perform worse than parallel but the issue is Powercolor can get away with cheaping out on capacitors while asus cant and theyre still doing it cause they only reserve their best stuff for top end line which is stupid product segmentation by them as always.

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:51 Aug-30-2019

Yeah Sapphire did the smart thing with the pulse i like what they did with the bracket MSI was smoking crack and cut VRAM thermal pads in half and the VRAM temps were high as shet

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:54 Aug-30-2019

Techpowerup has the PCBs btw, but you have to zoom and squint to see the components XD

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:54 Aug-30-2019

Also im not sure if you are familiar with this guy but he's basically a resident VRM expert if you will this is what he said about the STRIX's VRM skip to around 8:00 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioJHGyivLpQ&t=50s

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:55 Aug-30-2019

Yeah it's really hard too see as shet usually i end up watching a vid this dude uploads you can get a better look at the STRIX PCB in the video Dx my vision isnt the best when trying to read really text Xd

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:55 Aug-30-2019

I died laughing... MSI did what? They put too think thermal pads? rookie mistake if I say so myself and I do, as I've done it on a RRoD Xbox 360 when some 10 years ago when I was trying to fix my THIRD Xbox 360... gj microsoft...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
14:58 Aug-30-2019

Where does he get the Trise and Tfall temperatures to calculate the Watts? I'd love to know as I usually search way too long like crazy and he appears to have them. O_O

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:00 Aug-30-2019

Mothereffer is a genius im not sure what field he works in but you can find countless videos about hardware and especially VRM analysis and stuff pretty good guy to use for VRM reviews although he's not always 100% accurate as noone can be from pictures and without actual testing but he does good analysis

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:03 Aug-30-2019

But I can do it myself. PCBs aren't complicated, I just can't find all the stats usually and he has them.


With the stats I can do it myself in 2-3x minutes, instead of watching a 40 minute video... Otherwise yes, he seems great for PCB reviews and he has tons of stats that I can't get, probably has good connections with the manufacturers and 3rd party AIB manufacturers.

0
Rep
19
Offline
14:58 Aug-30-2019

Oh my god it's actually even worse you can see it in this video they're fakin clows for what they did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=morJq0HJoCc skip to around 12:45 LUL they cut them IN HALF

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:01 Aug-30-2019

Hahahaha XD
Damn... This is so sad... that's why do what Sapphire does and actually make a dedicated VRM cooler/radiator... simple solution, works best.

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:03 Aug-30-2019

Yeah they couldnt fit it onto the same heatsink so that had this genius plan of "HEY LETS JUST CUT THE PADS IN HALF GUYS" and save a few pennies and let the VRAM run hotter cause you know atleast the card is brown gold right? right guys... Dx Sapphire is atleast reliable even on pulse which is "cheaper" unit

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:05 Aug-30-2019

Also he has a powercolor video on the 5700xt unfortunetely still no Sapphire Nitro still no word of anything about it remeber when they said NAVI was getting all AIB's in mid august yeah it's september in 2 days and so far only pulse is in stock for me XD

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:06 Aug-30-2019

Dude I'd pick the Pulse over the Strix in terms of quality even if the Pulse is cheaper, if I had to choose, straight up quality design with mid-range quality components with proper cooling for everything. Now not if I'm L2 overclocking, but egh... it's LN2 overclocking...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:07 Aug-30-2019

Still only reference RX 5700(XT)s here, and they cost 460-500 euro... -_-

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:11 Aug-30-2019

I never said you should buy the Strix Dx just said he also has a vid on the powercolor red devil unit. Oh nvm its the 5700 that has the evoke and pulse models the 5700xt is only reference for 480€ lul

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:15 Aug-30-2019

Oh I know you didn't, I'm just saying in general :D


Yeah I'm skipping this gen and potentially next generations until the market becomes at least semi-consumer friendly... at this point I've just given up on them...


That's why I love chinese companies, they always come in and are brutally competitive and sell at low profit margins(the profit margins they NEED, not WANT)... Too bad that to make USA GPUs and x86-64 CPUs you need licenses and patents... :/

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:17 Aug-30-2019

Might actually get a second hand GPU if things don't get better next year/net gen of GPUs. But nobody in my country will buy a rx 5700(XT) or RTX 2060... most people buy up to 200-250 euro GPUs, which to be honest is normal, but we have no 200-250 euro GPUs from the current generation...


Well AMD and Nvidia helping the console market it seems and only AMD will benefit from it(and Nvidia from the switch now that I think about it).

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:18 Aug-30-2019

*USA as in Unified Shader Architecture, NOT United States of America(just in case, as it is potentially confusing, every time I read it I think of the country first XD).

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:19 Aug-30-2019

Wait really you dont have any rx 580's and rx 590s most of these are still going strong in my country atleast the Sapphire Nitro and Pulse ones are 1660ti and the likes are also here but theyre a lot more expensive 350+ range only a 1650 is 200-250€ but speaking of that garbage fire card Nvidia is apperently

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:20 Aug-30-2019

making a 1650 TI version you know after they said you would be crazy to not buy an RTX card. But then they keep making low end crap cards like the 1650 i mean tehnically maybe the 1650ti wont suck? But there is a big gap between 1650 and 1660/1660ti so idunno what nvidia is doing here honestly so many FAKIN GPU's

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:22 Aug-30-2019

Oh and i meant the rx570,580 are around 150-250€ depending on the 4GB or 8GB and these are brand new cards of course Pulse or Nitro it would be a decent stop gap for your aging 380 honestly it would allow atleast close to 60 and probably over 60 with high or medium settings in most games theyre still great cards

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:25 Aug-30-2019

I can't get away with a rx 580, my resolution is 2580x1080 and I want my GPu to be capable at 2x more years(or at this point even 3x years, sadly), the rx 580/590/570 aren't good for even regular 1920x1080 in demanding games.
And the gtx 1650Ti is 220 euro in my country... and still not good enough. The gtx 1660Ti is close to 400 euro(340-385 euro) and probably the bare minimum I need for 2580x1080...

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:24 Aug-30-2019

Or of course you could just end up waiting if AMD releases a 5600xt or 5600 i imagine those will still be like 300-350€ since there is a gap at that price range for AMD cards and you probably arent in a hurry to upgrade anyway :P

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:27 Aug-30-2019

I've been in a hurry to upgrade since 2017, but with the rtx GPUs and the RX 5700 GPUs they literally killed my interest in upgrading my GPU.(I've saved up the money too, but nah...)
And I was hoping for Zen2 to be at least 30-40% faster per core so that Zen3 could be another 10-20% faster than that and I could upgrade to Zen3, but nope(will probably upgrade to it anyway, but still)... huge disappointment by AMD's accountants, CEO and management...


The GPU market is a lot worse and alot more anti-consumer...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:28 Aug-30-2019

I think you gave me the example with the car trims/specs... currently it's like you can only by the limited edition of a car(overpriced, because it's got a couple tiny features and only 50 of those are built) when it comes to GPUs, except it's not the limited... screw that...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:29 Aug-30-2019

I mean I upgraded in 2017 to Zen, but I couldn't get a GPU as they were Sold Out by May due to the mining boom and then they came back to market in late 2018 at overpriced prices...

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:29 Aug-30-2019

Wait i assume the 1650ti was a typo that card was accounced a few days ago? Unless its already avalaible for you LOL. And yeah you probably need atleast a 1080 or whatever equaivalent to push your monitor at 60+ on max settings. Maybe a 1660ti or a 2060 regular version would be enough too actually but those are exp

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:31 Aug-30-2019

Yeah i know that feeling i got lucky as hell switching from my 280x to the rx 480 in 2017 february i was gonna wait for the 580 but it was announced for may and i didnt want to wait longer and GOOD cause may rolled around and as soon as 580 hit the stores they were all out of stock instantly

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:32 Aug-30-2019

I think AMD made a TON of money from the RX cards whichever rx 480,470 rx 570,580 they made a ton of money they are probably easily their best selling GPU's if not the best selling GPU's of all time. They sold like hot shet in 2017 to late 2018 and even before that in 2016 till 2017 mining boom they were sellin great

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:34 Aug-30-2019

Yes I was reading your comment as I wrote mine and I read "1650Ti" and wrote "1650Ti", I meant the gtx 1650(non-Ti).


I have saved up money currently to buy a rtx 2080 super if I wanted to(100-120 euro short of a rtx 2080Ti), but I won't as I don't enjoy being screwed over.


Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:37 Aug-30-2019

Market-share wise the hd4000 and hd5000 series are their best selling GPUs of all time, they had 51% of the market share(I read unofficially unreported, they had 58%) and I'm talking actual 58%, not compared to Nvidia, but compared to Nvidia, Intel, ARM, etc, etc.


But compared to 2008-2009, in 2019 about 10x times more GPUs are sold and that trully makes them their most successful GPUs of all time.


Especially now that they had 34% gross profit margin in 2017 and 38% gross profit margin in 2018, compared to the 18% in 2011 and 23% from 2012-2016...


This is gross margin btw, it's lower than actual profit margin per GPU sold as it takes into a count non-sold GPUs and non-sold CPUs and many other non-related expenses.

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:40 Aug-30-2019

Yeah i've got cash on hand for a 2080ti but i aint spending it. I refuse to spend more than 600€ maybe 700€ is as far as ill stretch it since i dont do anything other than play games as a main thing on my PC its a waste of money to buy a 1,300€ GPU this 1080ti will serve me fine i wanted the 5700xt but this deal

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:41 Aug-30-2019

came along and overall its about the same shet give or take like the 5700xt slight advantages with the 1080ti but overall i dont regret the purchase it was a huge boost and the rest i spent on the monitor and now im down to 1,5K that needs to be spent on renoving a room in the apartment this year later

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:46 Aug-30-2019

Oh dude If I had a gtx 1080Ti I wouldn't be thinking of upgrading until they had something 80-100% faster for 500$ MSRP(and however much in euro + tax).


And I don't mind if GPUs costs 1000 euro, as long as they actually cost the companies so much that they NEED to sell it at 1000 euro, that would be 900-925 euro at 0% profit margin.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:47 Aug-30-2019

Not that I would buy a 1000 euro GPU myself, but still.
And it's not what I would mind btw, it's actually objectively anti-consumer, but I'm used to using the "I" XD

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:49 Aug-30-2019

Nah i get what you mean neither would I i think that's too much. like sure if you wanna blow used car money on an entire PC and go full 9900k+2080ti there is that. But imo that's extremely stupid if it's just used for "entertainment" and education purpose. If its work than by all means if time is money then yeah...

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:51 Aug-30-2019

And also im not saying you as in "YOU" like you personally but in a general term to other people that have done that Dx my spelling is getting worse and worse

0
Rep
19
Offline
15:57 Aug-30-2019

Also did you watch buildzoid's video on the powercolor cause at 7:50 he talks about those back capacitors being "unnecessary" and a lot of cards not including them cause they "actually" dont contribute to anything like not a better OC or stability just usually a higher cost to manufacture.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:04 Aug-30-2019

If you have time to watch it all the way through he does talk extensivelly about powercolors VRM and he also states that the STRIX has the most powerful VRM and that the powercolor has the second best VRM out of all the cards. But the Strix is ridilious overkill while powercolor isnt its still better than pulse n ref

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:09 Aug-30-2019

What confuse me by your comment is that i thought you said ASUS only put 7 capacitors on the entire PCB which is an imbecil move. But they got 17 which is perfect just like everyone else uses the extra 10 on the back most of the time are worthless and dont do much as he states in the video so the STRIX is pure overkill

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:11 Aug-30-2019

with a 5x2 parallel solution and 60 amp chokes which perform as 70amp ones and 17 caps on them that VRM is ridilious overkill for a 5700xt card i believe ASUS made it probably for higher end NAVI and ended up just slapping this thing on the lower end model or they overbuilt it as can be the case with them alot times

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:18 Aug-30-2019

I said that they put 7 caps in the front-end and 10 in the back-end, instead of 10 + 10.
I don't know for sure if it doesn't help, but I know that it creates more noise for sure, how much more I can't tell for sure, but with 5 phases it doesn't really matter as you won't be able to overclock almost at all it either way and the controllers are meh too...


Also IDK but I like to avoid low quality components even if they are compensated for by having many of them. Quality > Quantity. As lower quality components have a tendancy of dying even when not exceeding their speced max load, whereas high quality ones can go beyond and last a good amount of time.


I'm not a fan of doublers though, which is why I think the asus design is worse than the pulse, otherwise compontent quality as I said

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:19 Aug-30-2019

as I said actually good.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:21 Aug-30-2019

Also most don't include all the capacitors to cut costs, as he is right, you can get away with less, but only IF they are high quality ones, but not in the case of PowerColor using those dead-beat capacitors.


I think he also said that it might be an engineering sample, but I doubt it as it had missing components whereas engineering samples always must have all components on and usually have all the headers too.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:19 Aug-30-2019

But its still a stupid purchase unless you are doing LN2 that STRIX is way overbuilt more akin to a flat 12 phase with a doubler without any transient response issues... i think what you mean is that the pulse is the most balanced out of all of them and with i agree powercolor overloaded it a bit too

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:21 Aug-30-2019

You are focusing too much on the phase count and not on the built in power stage setup people often mistake phase count as somehow=better there are serious trade off with higher phases and it almost always results in issues unless properly mitigated. And which components are low end?

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:22 Aug-30-2019

You wont overclock the 5700xt on anything he goes over the issues with them they are hard coded by the crappy VRAM bandwith and the powercolo has a dangerous chip on it so overloading the memory with voltage can easily kill the memory controller. The pulse looks very mediocre a 7 phase solution and so is the reference

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:23 Aug-30-2019

well I take into a count the controllers, the capacitors, the phases themselves and everything. As I said AMD is using much worse versions of good controllers or straight up poor controllers for the RX 5700(XT) and so are their partners so I don't see the need to mention them unless they are actually different.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:23 Aug-30-2019

Nitro will most likely outperform it by a mile again with a 10 phase solution but dont get me wrong there is NO POINT in buying anything above the pulse since overclocking on these cards is useless

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:24 Aug-30-2019

The controllers and doublers are crap on all their RX 5700 GPUs, well not really crap, but meh, crap compared to the ones in the Radeon VII, Vega 56/64 and rx 500/400 series.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:25 Aug-30-2019

Alright then give me an example of a good controller then? What on a 290x? Cause im lost here unless you think these are straight up downgrades from GPU's 5 years ago?

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:25 Aug-30-2019

And powercolor's components are just disappointing, considering that I got a r9 380 from powercolor and it's got great components(not high-end, but quite above mid-range), sad to see them basically being Palit... -_-

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:28 Aug-30-2019

Yes I think they are straight downgrades for the most part, but they are so much cheaper than what the good ones in the r9 200 series were.


And you hit the nail on the coffin, AMD's quality went up exactly with the R9 200 series, both in silicon and in PCB components.


Until the R9 200 seires they had PCB build quality akin to the RX 5700 PCB series build quality and Nvidia's PCB build quality, which again is mid-range with some lower-end ones, but to come down from what it was, it's literally Crap IN COMPARISON.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:30 Aug-30-2019

This seems a little out there honestly if nvidia was making crap PCB's wouldnt their cards have widespread issues? Oh wait the r9 200 were notorious for running hot and dying? Not that that has to do with the PCB but did you ever consider the r9 200 were overbuilt as hell cause they ran hot as hell? Makes sense to me

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:47 Aug-30-2019

Yeah probably why they were overbuilt, but their biggest problem was the reference blower cooler, which was the same size as the rx5700XT one, but on a r9 290x which consumes a ton more power, hell they thought it's a good idea to make the cooler for the r9 290x half the size(or so) than the reference hd7970 cooler, how genius of them...


Also as I said, the PCBs are Crap COMPARED to what AMD made from the r9 200 to rx 500 series. Otherwise they are mid-range.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:26 Aug-30-2019

You do know both the STRIX and Powercolor are custom PCB's right? Only the pulse is the reference PCB and evoke so you're comment only applies again to the Pulse and evoke but not the STRIX and Powercolor card those are custom controllers and custom doublers he states names in the videos and they're not crap far from i

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:29 Aug-30-2019

Yes, I know, but as I said above, 5-10 comments or so, the reference PCB is disappointing too, I was hoping(not hoping, I was so sure of it, I basically counted them as being downscaled radeon VII PCBs) for a downscaled Radeon VII PCB, but nope.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:31 Aug-30-2019

No way this is a much cheaper card Radeon VII is their flagship basically a 1080ti or 2080ti or 980ti or whichever they were never gonna use cheap crap on it but also i expect them to cut down on the 5700x it doesnt need the HIGHEST of qualites for the pcb to survive even the ref that runs hot as hell and has died

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:32 Aug-30-2019

AMD management dick-sucking the investors and maximizing profits basically...

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:32 Aug-30-2019

on a few people already for the most part theyre running hot as fk but they still output the fps and work fine. I think as long as it works its not an issue unless its absolute crap but then we'd be seeing widespread issues no?

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:34 Aug-30-2019

I think the reference running hot as hell also isnt as bad as a dual axial or triple axial running that hot since the axial fans dumb up to 40C of extra heat into your case unlike the blower that just poops it all out of the back :P

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:35 Aug-30-2019

But most RX 500(570 to 590) series had almost as good as radeon VII and vega64/56 PCB components, and they were a 8% smaller die and less power consuming GPUs.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:37 Aug-30-2019

Well obviously they've tested them, they are just going back to their roots. This quality was acceptable when you had a reason to upgrade every 1-2 years, nowadays people with the hd7970 are still capable of playing AAA 2017-2018 games at 1080p from low-max with good to excellent performance, depending on how demanding the game is.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:50 Aug-30-2019

I think many people make that mistake cause they think it's just a refresh and to be fair it's a perfectly fine mistake cause you would think it's just a refresh but amd actually improved the build quality significantly for the 500 series and i commend them cause the 400 was shet and a ton of complaints were made to th

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:51 Aug-30-2019

Oh and also here's the DF video on RTX and all the modes it's still a youtube video so there is always a quality loss but im gonna watch it too see if they found some more optimized settings for RTX with the different settings usually 1080ti with RTX = rtx 2060 give or take a few fps. Should serve as reference for me

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:53 Aug-30-2019

Yeah I thought the rx 500 series was just refreshed rx 400 series.
Except the rx560 which had 2 CUs more than the rx 460.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:38 Aug-30-2019

Oh trust me you dont wanna see the PCB of my nitro rx 480. And i agree the rx 570,580,590 from Sapphire are some of the best PCB's out there (again not AMD's but custom PCB by sapphire only Pulse uses reference PCB) still i imagine even the Pulse is a million times better than the rx 400 series. AMD really shet

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:39 Aug-30-2019

the bed with the first polaris PCB iteration the actual die is almost microscopic making it insanely difficult to cool even the best solutions hit 80C. While the 570,580,590 Nitro barely ever touches 70C while running at higher clocks. Much bigger die,better PCB, WAY BIGGER heatsink and boom a better card

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:48 Aug-30-2019

Well I've looked only the rx 500 series, I thought they were identical with the rx 400 series.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:41 Aug-30-2019

It's actually crazy how much of a scam the first polaris cards were with their shet PCB's. The 500 series was better than the 400 just on that FACT alone even if it was just a "refresh" it was miles better than the 400 in build quality. I commend them for their work on the 500 series but condemn the 400 back to hell

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:45 Aug-30-2019

And even if they made custom PCB's for the rx 400 cards like asus arez or powercolor or msi or whichever you couldnt ever cool it properly cause the die size is like 2 inches ROFL its way too small too dissapte heat properly i have no idea what they were thinking and doing with the 400 series but luckily 500 brought it

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:46 Aug-30-2019

THis is also why NAVI is harder to cool on avg. Smaller die= harder to dissapate heat from it. I actually commend Nvidia for making huge dies for their GPU's it always makes them run cool and quiet well we dont talk about the blower 1080ti and such cause then its not the case :P

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:50 Aug-30-2019

Die size doesn't matter for how easy it is to cool it.
The main thing is thermal density and then how good the contact is and how good the chip conducts heat.


Small die sizes with the same thermal density, same conductivity and same contact as just as easy to cool as bigger ones, except that you need a bigger cooler for the bigger ones, because they obviously output more heat overall.


And they were harder to cool, because Global Foundry's 14nm is/was crap firstly, but secondly, because it obviously has higher thermal desnity due to it being well denser than 28nm.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:52 Aug-30-2019

Oh okay i didnt know that thanks anyway forgot to link the video here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blbu0g9DAGA im prolly gonna watch right now Dx

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:54 Aug-30-2019

First 10 seconds in and i can see the dx12 hitching LOL fkin dx12 thats what makes me hate using RTX in the first place so much stuttering and hitching with it on compared to smooth dx11 performance

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
16:55 Aug-30-2019

Yeah that's why intel is having trouble to cool their chips, 14nm+++ is super dense and not nearly conductive enough, but with the 9000 series they did a lot better of a job with the cooling management, probably increased the conductivity.

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:58 Aug-30-2019

Nah mate it was the soldering gob job they applied to it. Also the 9900k says hi :) that thing runs hot as shet overall 9th gen is just as bad as the 8th gen Intel marketed it as oh we soldered it now instead of using toothpaste under the IHS but in actual testing it still runs just as hot as previous ones

0
Rep
19
Offline
16:59 Aug-30-2019

And ofc im talking about overclocking here pushing it to 5GHz and beyond on stock it runs perfectly cool probably every Intel chip K excluding the 9900k runs cooler on average than stock AMD solutions but thats cause people buy better custom air coolers however the chips are perfectly fine at stock only once you push

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:01 Aug-30-2019

them to 5Ghz and beyond they start entering that 80C territory or upper 70's so your only choice is to delidd or go home or stay at 5Ghz or 5.1 at best case. Either way the 9900k even at stock will hit 80C due to 4.7+boost+very high stock voltages on it to stabilize the extra cores+'threads

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
17:13 Aug-30-2019

Well I kinda consider 80C good for stock for intel, considering that the i7 4770k, i7 8700k with 3rd party mid-range air coolers hit 95C+ and even shutdowned themselves.

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:17 Aug-30-2019

While 70-80C is pretty normal for Intel it's also not good at stock i never go above 55C and on avg in games i never cross 60C at 5Ghz (peaks to 72C on the max temps due to avx) and ofc my max avx temp is 72C so yeah its all fine at stock its cool as a breeze never heard of anyone hitting 95C on the i7's and it being

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:18 Aug-30-2019

"normal" thats a garbage cooler right there. And while both those i7's chug a lot of power at stock they run cold as hell the i7 barely has a 4.3Ghz clock and i think the 4770k was similar to that too you gotta be pouring metal on it to get temps like that at stock even the stock cooler will hold it at 90C probably

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:21 Aug-30-2019

Also this thread is so long its taking me 75 years to scroll down rofl did you watch the vid?

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
17:24 Aug-30-2019

Well the cooler in question was the hyper212 and it ran great for a 20-30 minute stress-test with aida64 and p95, but then it goes south once it's in a case.


But here is another example of the i7 4770k with the ninja 4 and that's a brutal cooler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMhlxEdaqos


82C at 4.3Ghz with a cooler that can rival AIO liquid coolers.


Imagine a hyper 212(can't find the hyper-212 one, it's been years).

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
17:24 Aug-30-2019

And the i7 4770k overclocked easily if not for the thermals, you didn't need to increase the voltage much to get 4.3Ghz.

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:27 Aug-30-2019

no no i dont care about that i meant the 8700k runs at 4.3 at stock idunno about the i7 im asking if you watched the RTX video?

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
17:32 Aug-30-2019

oh the i7 8700k, the i7 8700k all I could find without a delid is this:https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/71jd27/hyper_212_evo_for_i7_8700k/


and this: https://techreport.com/blog/32661/just-how-hot-is-coffee-lake/


yes I watched it and I agree with you, didn't I say that? I thought I did, but I guess only in my head O_O

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:35 Aug-30-2019

Prime95 and blender really? You know both of those produce unrealistic temperatures right? Youre never gonna see that while playing a game at best that i7 is hitting 60-65C smash your Ryzen CPU with blender and it will go up to 90C (provided you got stock cooler or equalievent) Dx in gaming the i7 doesnt see ttemps

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:36 Aug-30-2019

like that but i meant like what did you think about all of the different RTX modes? are you sold on it yet or nah? He also stated that the reflections here are 60% stronger than in BFV imo they nailed the reflections the GI i still dont think is a big difference i mean it helps but the reflections is something

0
Rep
19
Offline
17:37 Aug-30-2019

I like from the get go as soon as i saw them. Something about making stuff reflect in real time it just adds a lot to the imagine, shadows kinda meh, GI is good but smashes performance and debris is nuts already in this game i spent like 15 minutes just smashing objects its actually fun LOL

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:18 Aug-30-2019

Dude it's not that I'm not sold on ray tracing, I know of ray tracing since like 2010 or so, when I watched the making of 3d animated movies. My problem with ray tracing CURRENTLY is that it is NOT much better than what we already have(it can be, but it's not right now), and there are tons of negatives associated with us getting ray tracing.


I have no problem even if ray tracing looked worse than our current lighting techniques, as long as it had no (other) negatives.


Currently it increases game and engine costs, it increases GPU die sizes and thus cost and instead of using the die area for normal compute units like Cuda cores and Stream processors they use it for very application limited Ray tracing cores, which makes us lose potential extra performance.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:21 Aug-30-2019

Real Time Ray Tracing(RTRT :O) currently is like SSDs were in the 80s and 90s, great products, but too many negatives for anyone sane to consider them anything but a gimmick and that's what ray tracing, at it's current state is, a gimmick.


The same way gameworks improved hair, clothes, water, etc, etc, but what we had was good enough and gameworks had too many negatives, objectively better, but not worth it, thus a gimmick too.

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:22 Aug-30-2019

xD what im asking is from the video with all of the RTX features shown off do you think visually does it look better to you say it can but does it look better the footage is right there? I mean yeah the cost is significant especially on the both of the reflections and on the GI,shadows and debris are tiny hits basicall

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:22 Aug-30-2019

Also I tested my CPU in P95(didn't do aida64) when I got it and my max temp was 65C after an hour of full load and I didn't have case fans back then.

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:23 Aug-30-2019

I know that i understand that youve said that many times and ive agreed but what do you think about control's usage of it? Specifically with what Remedy did in control i dont care about what if situations or how much better it can look or whatever hit can be mitigated visually does that look better or no?

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:27 Aug-30-2019

I think the glass reflections are amazing, it can be done without ray tracing, but it would be a nightmare to do so, compared to doing it with ray tracing.
The particles I didn't even notice them when he mentioned it.


the shadows look different, but I don't know if they look better or worse, basically different, but as good?


Also textures look nicer with RTX.

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:27 Aug-30-2019

Also on an urelated note your friends SSD got bricket while doing the 1903 which SSD is it? I cant believe windows 10 is now killing SSD's with updates im guessing he chose to "update" not do a fresh/custom install of the update right? Cause thats where tzzmsk also got rekt

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:29 Aug-30-2019

The only real difference with shadows is that they add some smaller ones not as intensive as in SOTTR but also a smaller performance hit overall not a big difference with them yeah the textures look a bit better with the GI (global illumination) this also cleans up some blocky shadows that is very common in games

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:31 Aug-30-2019

Also i noticed he never went into the debris/particles overall they dont add much they already look amazing by itself as can be seen in the console version when he is breaking objects. But as you saw even the 2080ti at 1080p was droppin below 60 in that one fight with everything maxxed out this game smashes GPU's

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:32 Aug-30-2019

ouch.


He mentioned that particles and debris reflected when things exploded like that fire extinguisher I think, or I'm remembering wrong.

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:34 Aug-30-2019

Also you saw that terrible hitch stutter his getting? I choose to not bother with RTX as much as i like the reflections in dx12 (he talks about what he thinks is the issue) there is this insane hitch stutter and performance dips. Performance in general is ALL over the place people on Remedy forums are getting

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:36 Aug-30-2019

crazy varying numbers it goes down by area and area there is no one consistent benchmark anyone can do of this game. when he took the 2060s and 2070s literal beggining of the game which btw runs far better than the rest of the game to compare fps -.- like yea mate i too get 150 fps in the opening lobby eksdee

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:38 Aug-30-2019

Also cool and good and i think we officialy BROKE this THREAD CHAIN as its too fakin long and i cant respond anymore XD :) imagine someone reading all of this LOL

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:30 Aug-30-2019

most people are on 1903 I think, it's not the actual version, the actual version is 18362.207, which I am on, but my SSD is fine, but it's an NVME PCI-E M.2 and his is a sata, so the cells and controllers are different.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:31 Aug-30-2019

Check your version by typing "winver" in the start menu.

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:32 Aug-30-2019

Wait wait wait this wasnt even the big 1903 update that bricked his ssd? A faking regular update did this? you gotta be kidding me which one was it?

0
Rep
19
Offline
18:33 Aug-30-2019

it's also in the about part of system option xD im on 18362.295 so im ahead of him

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:35 Aug-30-2019

now I should update you on the situation btw.
He did as I said(unplug, start pc, stop pc, plug in ssd), it showed and then he formated it, and then installed windows on it and then it worked/works now but is slow... and the warranty doesn't cover it...

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
18:36 Aug-30-2019

You are most likely to be safe. :)

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:10 Aug-29-2019

Firstly Jon sayed in his article that this is one of the best looking games but man.. nah, this looks so much worser then Quantum Break, character animations looks funny, facial animations are over exaggerated and just take out the reflections and you get a game that looks like something from 2012.
Also game so far is quit boring to me.

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:14 Aug-29-2019

Not bad have you tried turning MSAA off to regain performance also have you gotten to the second area where you go down the elevator did you experience any performance drop off there? To me it looks amazing better than quantum break the animations arent great but it does take itself very seriously.

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:16 Aug-29-2019

I think the powers are way better here MUCH better than quantum break the gunplay is just as boring as quantum breaks though no uniqueness to it like max payne or alan wake had. The story reminds me of max payne,alan wake creepiness aswell as taking itself too seriously like alan wake did no funny dialouge like max

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:18 Aug-29-2019

max payne had nothing clever just sorta boring writing and vague lines. Im not a fan of it so far but i wanna see where it keeps going if it ever gets interesting or will it just be a confusing mess like quantum break was.

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:23 Aug-29-2019

idk everyones eyes see things differently and yes i did go thry second area tho thry whole game i am getting 1sec freezes, like usuall cant turn dx12 on bec of win version but as i heard it gives worser peformance so no lose there, where the hell did you found Max Payne gunplay similar to Controls, i mean Max Payne dosnt even have on you dive in slow motion and repeat.
let me cheek the peformance when i turn MSAA off

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:30 Aug-29-2019

The only thing i actually hate about this game is the checkpoint system it's super annoying also im not getting any freezing or stuttering but that 2nd area hammers my performance by about 20-40% and any larger area also does that.

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:36 Aug-29-2019

ok so witout MSAA i got 5 fps and it still droped, i need to play this with vsync and to lover everything to medium or even low as for some reason game keeps crashing when it starts freezing to much

0
Rep
28
Offline
21:21 Aug-29-2019

If you bought a physical DVD-ROM copy, I'll gladly take it. I've been meaning to play this game, but I NEVER pay full price. I'll have to wait a year or so.

0
Rep
5
Offline
21:32 Aug-29-2019

It's cracked, you can get it where he probably got it from too.

3
Rep
19
Offline
21:40 Aug-29-2019

You are a naughty boy Steven but then again i got it for free when i got my 2060 Super and then ended up returning and purchasing a 1080ti used so i yoinked it for free this game and wolfenstein although i regret ever installed that and using the code for it. Otherwise prolly wouldnt have bought it since EPIC

1
Rep
5
Offline
21:48 Aug-29-2019

I've not played it. It doesn't grab me as much and I'm already very busy anyway so I'll probably skip the game for now. When it's on sale I might probably check it out. Other than that, Doom Eternal is the only thing on my radar right now.

0
Rep
19
Offline
22:08 Aug-29-2019

Oh yeah true im hooking up with that Doom Eternal too honestly nothing else is looking good this year other than Doom maybe the new COD has potential but man very few games this year honestly

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:26 Aug-29-2019

NO i said the gunplay is BORING and NOTHING like max payne or alan wake's unique gameplay!

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:27 Aug-29-2019

Also you cant turn dx12 you have to launch the game seperately in the folder from dx11 and dx11 runs BETTER than dx12 mate so use that. And again the gunplay is boring and nothing like max payne xD read my comment again.

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:39 Aug-29-2019

oh i understood it completly wrong, and no i cant run dx12 in new games bec of my windows build its from 2015, same it was with shadow of the tomb raider it just dosnt alow me to

0
Rep
19
Offline
21:42 Aug-29-2019

ohh so youa re using dx11 then good dx11 runs better! i understood it wrong too i thought you were running it in dx12. Anyway did you get the powers like throwing stuff at people you didnt find that fun? I really like the powers in this game a lot more than quantum breaks time powers personally

0
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
21:46 Aug-29-2019

powers in this game reminds me a lot of few games but most of Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy just a modern version of it

1
Rep
19
Offline
23:46 Aug-29-2019

Oh also that stuttering and freezing issues you are having David? It's the HDD. I've told you this before as to why an SSD is necessery especially for demanding games like this an HDD will cause stuttering/freezing issues. You can look it up online if you think im not speaking the truth.

3
Rep
80
Offline
admin approved badge
00:32 Aug-30-2019

so devs are practiclly forcing us to buy a SSD same as we will be forced to get RT cards, saddness..saddness everywhere

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
00:35 Aug-30-2019

No an ssd is a long time coming and good, on top of SSD prices dropping every quarter for the forseeable future.
Ray Tracing is also a long time coming, but unlike SSDs, people are buying RT cards way before both RT and the cards are good and have no down sides.

4
Rep
58
Offline
admin approved badge
05:40 Aug-30-2019

Yeah you really need an SSD. It is a day and night difference.

1