it is stable… but with high voltage and high temps and reaching 60-65 degrees celsius isn't that hard.. the problem is that this cpu starts throttling at 62.5 degrees celsius, so… after 1 hour of bf3 my cpu runs at 2.7 ghz -.- i lowered the clock speed to 3.4 ghz with much lower voltage and it is stable and cool, i prefer to sacrifice 1-2 fps than to increase fan speed, i believe that athlon II x4 631 is the same cpu but underclocked and with locked multiplier, hence.. the same overclock should be possible with that one for lower price. max TDP -130W

Oh, You are most correct. I am sorry. They had pretty different benchmarks and I didn't notice they are twins at the time of add. It's been fixed, thanks a lot for the help :)

lol, same socket too :D

but the am3+ socket is more future proof, isn't it?:)

also it doesnt have L3 cache..

true.but many are going llano these days.
it depends on the budget in the end and also what your friend wants

i suggested him these two processors, fx 4100 and intel ivy bridgbe i3 3220(i think), and he chose the phenom, because it fit fix in his budget :)

Cache isn't something really important, it's like a very fast RAM, it remembers the information that cpu uses so it won't load it again.. nothing really important and the socket doesn't matter, just if you upgrade like.. every year you need a socket that is used for new cpu, otherwise.. 1 time every 5 years like me.. you need to change everything. The socket is just the platform after all, there's not worse or better socket. And, do not look at GD ranking, it is far from being accurate, look for benchmarks on google.

Passmark Scores:
i3-3220 -> 4512<br />Phenom 965 -> 4200<br />FX4100 -> 3974<br />Athlon 651k -> 3963<br />these are benchmark scores</br></br></br><br />P.S. = On passmark website athlon 651 got 4700 but it's fake, i benchmarked myself</br></br>

passmark doesn't benchmark themselves.thousands of users put in their scores and average is calculated.so it depends on their rigs.everything will be different.you can't trust passmark too much

i've looked around for ppl and what scores they got, and no, the other parts of the rig doesn't matter, just the cpu alone is considerered, and for gpu benchmarks just the gpu alone, and for athlon 651 is written 4700 because the person sent that with 3.6 ghz overclock

if you put in a pentium dual core with a gtx 690 sli don't you think the 690 will get much lower performance than its supposed to?so,yes,the entire rig DOES matter.and like i said,it's not passmark that's doing the benchmark.it's other people who are uploading them with passmark software and average is considered

my gpu got similar score on stock clocks, i mean +/-10.. and i know users are uploading these, the performance test .. passmark benchmarking program is testing each part alone

that's why i said i got similar score to my gpu, that i'm part of "everyone" you are telling me now that people who sent that score got identical pc builds as me? such coincidence..

that's what im also saying :P

but if the gpu/cpu is benchmarking.. for example the cpu, it is tested to math calculation by the passmark test, how does the gpu and ram influence it on calculating speed? the ram is holding the files ready for cpu to load and the gpu is rendering the image.. they have nothing to do with calculation

have you used that software?try using it then add more ram(get some sticks from a friend) and you'll see a different score.and not only that,you won't get the same score twice even if you don't change the ram or any other parts

i tried with 1 stick of ram (2gb) and it's the same thing, the score will be different anyway, you can't ask some circuits to work the same forever, the score as i said.. can vary by +/- 10 points

you are telling me that these +/- 10 points are important? it's just normal that score will be different, and you are telling me that athlon II x4 651k with 3950 score is better than phenom II x4 965 with 4200 score, it's not a score that athlon will achieve without overclocking by 300 mhz

i didn't say anything like that!!
you are nott get me

Excuse me, but you said the scores will be totally different, you gave me the example of dual core and gtx690, now you tell me that instead of dual core, that person with 8 cores will get like 10 more points? that's important? here's what you said "depends on their rigs everything will be different" When i said the score will be +/-10 i was reffering after each test, not for different rigs, sometimes with my gpu i got 1705, sometimes 1697, on the same rig, test one after another. To make the long story, short.. you said the score will depend on different rigs, now you say the score will be different each time you test.
P.S. I get around 1700 because my gpu is OC

250 points?!!really?what are you talking about?!!
Phenom is 210th and athlon is 176
so why did you say phenom is better?

god…. i said that athlon got 4700 score there.. why? because that score is when it is 3.6 ghz (3 ghz stock) on stock it got 3950 (tested myself), phenom got 4200 on stock (googled it too), why don't you watch the scores i put there up, the ranking is based on scores

i said it before too, rank is based on score, i got this processor, i had fun overclocking it.. how else do you think i could know what clock is giving 4700 score? and back to rank-score.. i see u don't understand it, let me give you some examples..
Intel xeon E5-2690 is the first place with 16.629 score
the second is..
intel xeon E5-4650 with the score… 16.418
I hope you understand why E5-2690 is the beeest and the first, because it got higher score, that's why athlon with 4700 score is better ranking than in this case.. the phenom 965 with 4200, if it got higher score what do you expect? better rank

ok.ok.thanx for the info