GD LiveCast Nibble - Is Microsoft Killing PC Gaming?

Written by Jon Sutton on Tue, Mar 8, 2016 12:45 PM

Microsoft harping on about its dedication to PC gaming is never new. It loved PC gaming when it created the Xbox One. It loved PC when it bought Bungie and made Halo an Xbox exclusive. It loved PC when it totally botched Games For Windows Live. And now Microsoft has once more said it loves PC with the announcement of a slew of Xbox One exclusives making the jump. The catch? They make the leap to the Windows 10 Store. 

Said store is in its infancy and certainly has its fair share of drawbacks. Every app in the Windows Store is a UWP (Universal Windows App) product, and has various limitations such as limited multi-GPU support, no GSync, no modding, and more. It's the first step towards locking down Windows and creating a walled garden, and that's certainly what Epic's Tim Sweeney thought earlier this week during his tirade against Microsoft. It's a hot topic, and perfect GD LiveCast fodder, so Tim is joined by Ryan and Lukas for a run-down of whether Microsoft is killing PC gaming. 

That's what the GD LiveCast team thought, but what do you make of Microsoft's recent rumblings in the gaming arena? Is this a stab in the back or the first step to greater things? 

As ever, if you enjoyed it, please remember to give it a thumbs up and subscribe to our dedicated media YouTube channel if you havent already. If you subscribe to the Game Debate Media channel you can keep up to date with all the latest GDLC’s, and receive Nibble breakdowns throughout the week. The more support we can get, the more great stuff like this we can do for everyone at GD. 

[[[Youtube:::UC07WB1N0dr7oWCy5gHur_zQ:::true]]]

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13:59 Mar-09-2016

I would say yes, after valve it is microsoft that is killing PC gaming.

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08:20 Mar-10-2016

why valve?

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09:25 Mar-10-2016

because steam sales

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10:28 Mar-10-2016

I doubt valve is ruining pc gaming haha. Steam sales? Thats like saying one day release prices are ruining pc gaming lol. I ca go buy The Division at the store for 45€ instead of 60€ online. Pretty big incentive to actually buy the game on day one. I got gta v for 40€ on release day.

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10:36 Mar-10-2016

ok here's the problem,
let's say you're a dev and agree on certain "value" of the game, die-hard fans will pay the price and many other people pay the price if they feel it's fair for what the game offers,
but then Steam announces sale, giving exactly same game for ridiculously low price, making joke of both devs and gamers, I honestly see no sense in making sales like this, people who wanna pirate games will pirate them even if the games will be given away for almost free, people who will want to buy games will buy them if prices will be reasonable - obviously people will not buy games for full prices if there will be guaranteed sale waves, plus if a game is suddenly sold for low price, unconsciously customers will treat it as low quality game, which is absolutely worst

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10:58 Mar-10-2016

In fairness it's not Valve which sets the Steam sale prices, it's devs and publishers. They shot themselves in the foot by devaluing games.


Now people sit around waiting three years until they can get 75% off, which is a damn sight more patience than I have. Games' perceived value has dropped, but it does seem as if devs and pubs are more aware of this now and becoming resistant to insane sales as it's obviously not healthy.


Whether someone believes a game is worth a certain price point is beside the point - if everyone waited and bought a game for £3.75 it wouldn't get a sequel.


Sorry if it doesn't come across this way but yeah I agree Steam sales are bad for gaming, but it's difficult to blame gamers looking for the best deal.

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11:10 Mar-10-2016

Yup Jon is correct. Steam is just a middle man. You say giving games away for free. That to me is hilarious. Have you ever surfed the steam india site and seen how cheap they sale games there for? We pay 60€ for a new game in europe in India its easily HALF that. So yea it has nothing to do with valve or steam, they dont decide prices like Jon state and hes 100% correct.

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11:12 Mar-10-2016

And there's nothing wrong with sales, we're not all millionaires with SLI/Crossfire or 1000$ gpus who can buy every game on day one lol. And honestly with the way games have been developing lately ain't no way in hell im paying hard earned money for a game that barely runs, and when it does runs poorly. Its why i didn't and stil havent bought ac unity.

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11:17 Mar-10-2016

Here for example. Why are g2a keys so cheap? If your russian on steam the Division RIGHT NOW is 1999 p?? which comes out to 25€ or about 28$. Meanwhile in France its 60€. And this is direct from steam. Someone could buy em in bulk resale em and make money.

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12:08 Mar-10-2016

for online games and games with multiplayer(not sure about singleplayer), buying the russian version, will make you use a VPN and then play only with russians as it is region locked to Russia.

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12:18 Mar-10-2016

I'm not really sure how they work out international prices of hard copy games vs digital copies. The Rand used to be about R10 to $1. Games in the stores here are about R600 which equates to $60, same price in steam store, so take your pick. When our economy began to crash, that same $60 game costs R900 on steam now, while in the stores it still remains R600.. Figure that one out. Some games are not available to us in stores are are now too expensive on steam, so we need to rely on a steam sale to buy the game at an affordable price. I still cannot afford fallout 4

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08:34 Mar-09-2016

Curse you Irony. Bought a game, but its feel like it was not your game at all. Thank microsoft for the bright idea ..

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20:14 Mar-08-2016

I miss the times when you just buy the game you want. Insert the disk in your dvd, install and play it. No need to install any other platforms.. Now its mainly focused on keys and platforms for activating. But if steam/origin/uplay

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20:16 Mar-08-2016

shut down you lose everything you bought.. When this time will back (to insert the disk, install, play).. QQ.

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21:06 Mar-08-2016

long live backup images :D

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05:42 Mar-09-2016

i have something like 20 games on dvd :D. I still can buy them with disk, but they're more expensive than just key.

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23:24 Mar-08-2016

Cloud is the future and home physical media is being less and less used.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the amount of OEM PC's without ODD's drop in numbers over the next decade or so.

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07:31 Mar-09-2016

and who will pay for the infrastructure? everyone goes crazy about Cloud'n'shiezz but nobody understands internet network has limited throughput, for ex. I live in capital city of my country yet I cannot effectively have more than 5-6Mbits download due to density/aggregation, so watching 720p/1080p videos online is barely possible, downloading games takes days,
plus driver support for OEM PCs is sometimes so bad one has to use the originally included installer DVD :P

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07:53 Mar-09-2016

Who indeed? Generalised storage and transfer technology is improving very disproportionally to generalised internet technology. 10mbit here, I know the pain, though 750kbit upload hurts more.


Fun fact: I DC'd while typing this.


Still, it would be nice if the government could sort internet technology out.

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10:32 Mar-10-2016

Personally i think cloud is a joke. The internet isnt as reliable as you think. Especially in countries like France, Italy, Spain and so on who stil use DSL. I love having ODDs and would never buy one without it. I still buy CDs and listen to em, they sound 100x better then mp3s. I still intall from discs because gta v on 12mb/s would take a few days.

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10:33 Mar-10-2016

And then what happens if your connection goes down or something you can't play if its all on the cloud haha. Its why i love buying blurays, id hate streaming. Plus its one more connection for it to cause issues. HDD-CPU-GPU-Display. Add another external not in your control connection and voila troubles. PS Physical media is 15€ cheaper for the division on DAY ONE. Ill stick to discs lol.

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17:56 Mar-10-2016

Internet service is abysmal here in the central US. The fastest thing available throughout most of the state I live in is 6MB, and the majority are stuck with 3MB or less.

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18:15 Mar-10-2016

6MB/s (48Mbit) isn't that bad for gaming, will download every game within 2.5 hours ;)


Or do you mean 6Mbit?

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18:43 Mar-10-2016

Anyone who complains about having 48mbit deserves a very firm slap.


I'm pretty sure he meant 6mbit

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18:45 Mar-10-2016

lol,I have a average of 400KB/s

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20:32 Mar-10-2016

and here I am with 250 Mb/s.....
Well it's pretty expected, most of my country is flat and it's as big as a russian village, while having less people at the same time :D

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21:20 Mar-10-2016

6Mb "Megabit" per second or basically about 750KB "KiloBytes" per second download which is less than even 1MB "MegaByte" per second. Not 48Mb "Megabit". I would love to have 45Mb "Megabit".

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21:36 Mar-10-2016

Yea i think leadstar meant to write 6mb instead of 6MB haha. Lowercase must be divided by 8 to get uppercase lol. Theres megaBIT and megaBYTE. Megabyte is bigger. Mine in New England used to be 100mb/s or about 12MB/s. I miss those days.

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21:37 Mar-10-2016

Sorry for the confusion. I see that I listed the wrong abbreviations before and I can't edit now.

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22:08 Mar-10-2016

You shall pay for it by losing the internet!


Anyhow, rule of thumb to keep it simple: The variable word is always upper case, be it Kilo, Mega or Giga, then it's upper case if it's byte, or lower case if it's bit.
ie: 1MB = 1 megabyte and 1Mb = 1 megabit

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22:54 Mar-10-2016

Yeah I know, but I wrote it wrong originally by mistake and it wouldn't let me edit afterward. :(


Anyway I only get 6Mb "Megabit" and it cost me freaking $70 a month for that slow @ss crap.

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00:04 Mar-11-2016

Prices in the US for internet service are so gouged it is INSANE. Here in france tv/internet/landline is 26€ a month with fibre if available. Would be around 30$. Without a contract, mobile with 10gb of data is 30€ a month with unlimited texts and calls within the EU and nothern US. Ridiculous price difference yet people still complain about socialism lol

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00:51 Mar-11-2016

Mine and my wife's phones together are another $225 a month for a shared 5GB data cap. Home Internet is $70 for that 6Mb unlimited. Direct TV is another $70. So almost $400 a month just for those services. :(

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00:59 Mar-11-2016

Yea its INSANE. There is fiber around my place but its an apt building wed have to wait for a coop meeting then get it installed. Unfortunately its only 30mb/s for fiber around here but other towns have 100-200 up to 1gb/s all same price. We used to pay around 170 a month for 100mb/s in MA but service was so unreliable.

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01:31 Mar-11-2016

Wow, yeah that are absolutly crazy prices compared to Europe.


We pay €55 a month for 150Mb/s via Coax, including TV and Phone. Would love to switch to fiber(mainly for a faster upload speed) but that isn't rolled out in my town just yet. The area's that have fiber have acces to 500-1000Mb/s for €70 and the first 10Gbps connections for €100 a month are being deployed aswell.


I also pay €22 a month for 8GB mobile data, which is quite fast to, i can't ger the full speed since my Phone doesn't support LTE-Advanced/4G+ but a friend gets like 100+Mbit while moving on the train.

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01:42 Mar-11-2016

Yea 55€ a month but u get everything. It s unlimited here though even for fiber there is no gap. Right now adsl is ludicrous for uploads, wanna start my own youtube channel bu wouldnt be able to upload unless i ping off my phone and use 4g on the pc. France is so far backwards with the internet its beyond me. Id love to move to Germany or somewhere much faster.

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07:51 Mar-09-2016

I don't miss optical media at all tbh, slow, noisy and these days you even have to swap them during install(cough GTA5).


Yes their is a risk(very small in case of Steam imho)the service shuts down, but the convenience and ease it brings regarding accesing your games and saves everywhere, mods ans sales is unequestionable.


I think GoG is the best model available right now, quick and easy download, and if the service ever shutsdown you can still play and install your games.

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07:54 Mar-09-2016

Noisy is an understatement. I'm pretty sure you could hear a DVD spinning up over a jumbo jet right in your earhole.

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08:23 Mar-10-2016

good luck playing a game after 10-15 years.

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10:09 Mar-10-2016

My first Steam Half Life game (Half Life 2) is working for almost 12 years , and i can still play it fine.

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10:12 Mar-10-2016

hahaha, wow, I still have My Half-Life 1, Opposing forces and Blue shift that still run (checked last year).

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19:25 Mar-08-2016

EA, Microsoft, and Dunevo is killing PC gaming.....

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20:11 Mar-08-2016

I don,t mean to sound harsh but...what is wrong with Denuvo? it prevents pirating from what i can see. Correct me if i'm wrong on this

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20:33 Mar-08-2016

It does but it also brings hordes of issues with it. Far Cry Primal wouldn't even register because of denuvo and conflicts with various anti-virus softwares. Problem is it also runs background while gaming, sometimes making the game stutter and lag. Denuvo is absolutely evil plain and simple. Its crackable as well so it doesnt really prevent piracy.

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21:59 Mar-08-2016

meh I hate DRM and Denuvo, game optimization is all that matters. The witcher 3 has no DRM and sold a lot too, so we don't need it even if piracy exist.

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04:00 Mar-09-2016

PreHistoricWalrus
You are not wrong but denuvo is killing PC Gaming. People used too check the game before they pay for it now they can't Because of Denuvo.
And it also destroys your SSDs.People lost their drives because of DENUVO

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04:02 Mar-09-2016

I'm not against Gaming Security but I'm not against the Piracy either....
What they have wrote in Denuvo website its all wrong denuvo is working oppositely.....

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22:22 Mar-09-2016

Zeestark
I agree with you, i forgot to mention i am not familiar with Denuvo so i just gave my opinion based on what i saw. If this is what Denuvo is doing to games and in some cases hardware then it is far from a perfected software. I want to know what happend to game demos..so people don't have to pirate a game.

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16:52 Mar-08-2016

Microsoft are the least of our problems.... If companies continue releasing halfa**ed games with poor optimzation, poor PC ports and unfinished games that relies on overpriced DLC. That's what's killing PC gaming.... not Microsoft.

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05:51 Mar-09-2016

Don't forget about the games that are shifting a quarter of their development time on in game micro transactions Cough Bioware, 343, EACough. Its is one thing to sell DLC or maybe an exclusive pre-order item but micro transactions will certainly be one of the reasons I stay away from games id normally like.

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10:16 Mar-09-2016

You are aware that "Bioware " doesn't exist anymore ? They are just a part of EA now.

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16:35 Mar-08-2016

As long as I have my counter strike nothing can kill pc gaming for me.


But yeah, windows is actually getting really scary and annoying, I have ****in steam, uplay and an origin account already, how many accounts for gaming portals/shops am I supposed to have to play everything?..

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16:21 Mar-08-2016

I guess one day I'll give up Windows and get SteamOS.
This depends how much is windows going to push us.


(Not to mention I'm also afraid they start to block softwares??? Who knows what do they have in mind. I'm just being paranoid and guessing!)

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17:38 Mar-08-2016

Steamos is Linux for kind information which is not good in performance as Windows .
You can stick to win 7 with vulkan api

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20:16 Mar-08-2016

gl, playing moba in steamos

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15:46 Mar-08-2016

Definitely with the whole DX12 and the Windows Store exclusivity, it can only harm PC gaming

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15:22 Mar-08-2016

Steam is better than windows store at'least we get a proper game with all features of the game, windows store on the other hand doesn't offer much of options in game settings......

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14:49 Mar-08-2016

Absolutely not,because no one supports it and no one will support it.
lol hahaha

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14:45 Mar-08-2016

No, PC gaming is bigger than ever, and growing by the day.


Microsoft is, however, killing any chance they might have had of being a major player in the PC gaming marketplace.

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14:37 Mar-08-2016

Console exclusive games are killing PC Gaming
Bad PC Ports are killing PC Gaming
Unoptimized games are killing PC Gaming..


I could go on and on...

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22:15 Mar-08-2016

Console exclusives as we see are going to be reduced drastically to Sony exclusives since MS is releasing their games to PC. OH wait I meant to Win 10 ONLY! The rest I agree! But MS is indeed ****ing things up!

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14:17 Mar-08-2016

Now every OS wanted its own store to take a part of the cake, as Apple & Google did, it was obvious that Micro$oft will do it, remember when Gabe Newel started to complain?. Now it's the time for the developers to decide, stick to Steam, Origin, GOG & uShop or go to embrace M$? It's their call and our money....

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13:54 Mar-08-2016

yes, make it stahp

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13:52 Mar-08-2016

yes they has

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13:51 Mar-08-2016

Sorry Microsoft, i think you are trying to push too far too fast. You should stick to making Operating Systems (although it displeases many and enrages many of us games with the DX12 thing and the disapproval of windows 10), please make games just for fun again, a casual thing, stop forcing things upon us, stop trying to beat steam, stop trying to be the best game developer, if you keep pushing us and pushing us than people are going to get tires of your ship and just abandon you. That's what i think is going to happen if you don't back off.

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13:48 Mar-08-2016

Microsoft lives in a world where they believe/hope that pc gaming is dieing.


Their policy is kinda want to play a game we have a xbox one.

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13:45 Mar-08-2016

To be honest with you guys my experience with PC hasn't been all that amazing, in fact I don't think it's anything special but it is for the most part my all-in-one entertainment system. After the Nintendo NX comes out I plan to go straight back to console gaming but I'll keep my PC on the side for all games that are not Nintendo.

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13:29 Mar-08-2016

I admit,I have been less than pleased with Microsoft lately.Though as someone said,Nvidia has been making things a bit hard for non-nvidia users as well

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13:34 Mar-08-2016

This is true and a huge disappointment. I honestly hope they dont ruin Mafia III. We are all playing because we love it, we are all gamers. Why purposefully make games run like complete crap on competing hardware? I think its incredibly disgraceful. This article explains it best. http://wccftech.com/nvidia-gameworks-visual-corruption-gears-war-ultimate-edition/

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13:27 Mar-08-2016

"Microsoft harping on about its dedication to PC gaming is never KNEW." lol wat

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14:16 Mar-08-2016

Sorry, just a typo ;)

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