Xbox Head of Ops Says XBox Scorpio Is Better Compared To High-End PC Than PS4 Pro

Written by Shaheryar Ehsan-i-Haque on Wed, Aug 30, 2017 5:00 PM

It seems Microsoft isn't interested in comparing the Xbox One X with the PS4 Pro. They consider the Xbox to be in a totally different league. Instead drawing a comparison with what a high-end PC has to offer. Certainly a bold statement by the Xbox Operations Head Dave McCarthy and he wasn't afraid of making the remarks in the Official Xbox Magazine UK, October 2017 edition.

While comparing them, Dave said to Xbox Mag, “I make more of a comparison [with Xbox One X] to what the higher end PCs are doing right now. There is a big difference with 40% more processing power, in terms of ensuring that consistent frame rate, including that frame buffer that’s going to get you all those 4K textures, ensuring the spatial audio is going to be at a premium for you. So it really is that top-end experience.”

We cant help but feel that his remarks are the exact opposite of what the console community looks at when it buys new devices though. Over the last year, only 1 out of 4 purchases of the PlayStation was the PS4 Pro, meaning people are still content with the standard variant and aren't ready to shift, just because of performance. Console lovers prefer to read the games list rather than look at the specifications of what they are buying.

The actual selling point of a console is exclusives and most multiplayer console titles will again arrive on PCs through cross-play, which Microsoft itself introduced. In Microsoft's case, most exclusives are from their own studios such as Forza, Gears of War, Dead Rising and so on. There is a lack of third party developer games here exclusive to the Xbox One.

In regards to raw power, Xbox One X delivers around 6 TFLOPs of graphical compute power whereas the PS4 Pro delivers 4.12 TFLOPs. For reference the 6GB Nvidia GTX 1060 delivers 4.4 TFLOPS and the GTX 1070 comes in with 6.5 TFLOPS.

Anyway, it certainly trumps its actual PS4 competitor here but will that be enough to force Sony's fans to shift over to Xbox? Or more importantly, do PC gamers think this will effect PC game development and releases in anyway? Let us know what you folks think!

Our favourite comments:

Why are we comparing Polaris compute performance to Pascal? Doesn't make sense since they are architecturally different. It should've been PS4Pro(4.2 TFlops) = RX 470(4.9 TFlops) and XBOneX(6 TFlops) = RX 580(6.2 TFlops) because they are all Polaris chips... Then again console games are better-optimized than on PC so, console specs are slightly ahead of their PC counterparts.

EternalHaze

Really stupid to compare gflops of the amd console with nvidia. Rx580 has over 6k gflops jist like a 1070 but the 1070 is much much superior

tacese

Login or Register to join the debate

Rep
2
Offline
05:34 Sep-01-2017

Oh. Good for it then. Is every game going to run at 60fps? I'll let you get back to me on that.

1
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
17:57 Sep-01-2017

Is every game going to run at 60fps?
No.

4
Rep
319
Offline
admin badge
13:32 Sep-02-2017

Much better compared to other consoles though.

1
Rep
191
Offline
junior admin badge
15:01 Sep-02-2017

I'll take a wait and see approach.

2
Rep
15
Offline
admin approved badge
02:50 Sep-01-2017

I said it before and I will say it again, hardware doesn't win me over games do.


I say this as both a PC and console gamer.

3
Rep
48
Offline
04:48 Sep-01-2017

On the other hand astonishing games are always nice to play. That breathtaking feeling can not be replaced by dated graphics. I play wow and it is very dated. Some games can get away with it but others need to look like diamonds.

1
Rep
15
Offline
admin approved badge
05:44 Sep-01-2017

Modern graphics are nice to have but story and gameplay have always been my cup of sweet tea.

1
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
09:02 Sep-01-2017

Same here bud, I play on consoles and PC and I will trade graphics, animations and cinematics for gameplay, mechanics, level design, story and sound.

2
Rep
1
Offline
11:22 Sep-05-2017

Agreed, I'm not much of a graphics whore but i just can't play on console due to the low frame rate.

0
Rep
-15
Offline
14:31 Aug-31-2017

lol joker using AMD APU for xbox scorpio compare to high end pc(US $2k)


this microsoft stop innovation brain dead only know earn $$$ money

1
Rep
50
Offline
17:47 Aug-31-2017

the graphics side of that APU is comparable to an RX 580.....

4
Rep
97
Offline
admin approved badge
23:12 Aug-31-2017

and the cores in a jaguar arent like the cores we have been getting in a desktop. they dont share resources but are still clustered.

1
Rep
1
Offline
10:48 Aug-31-2017

High end PC? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

7
Rep
1,041
Offline
senior admin badge
10:12 Aug-31-2017

6 TFLOPS of what?
let's simplify it a lot, if we talk about floating point operations per second, which is decimal point calculations, being responsible for polygon drawing on screen,
xbox one offers 1.32 TFLOPS of single-precision floating point performance,
GTX 1080 Ti offers about 0.355 TFLOPS of double-precision floating point performance,
so I can easily imagine the hyped 6 TFLOPS of xbox scorpio is not a full single-precision floating point performance, similarly as high-resolution is actually just upscaled output

6
Rep
62
Offline
admin approved badge
10:44 Aug-31-2017

Ofc it is SP. fp32. Remember, One X uses Polaris GPU, and RX 580 has just over 6 TFLOPS of fp32 performance. Now, with console optimization, 6 TFLOPS is plenty to run games at 4K with decent graphical fidelity. And FHD would ofc run at PC-Ultra 60fps. If XBox One X lives up to the hype, I might buy it. Specs-wise it is a monster console. But this is Microsoft we're talking about so who knows.

0
Rep
1,041
Offline
senior admin badge
12:24 Aug-31-2017

spec-wise we know nothing for certain,
I fail to see how Microsoft is going to earn money from it (it's a product afterall), because if it's packed 580, then either price of xbox will be significantly higher than current xbox, or they will have to cripple other hardware components, or they will probably make games noticeably more expensive, introduce some subscription service or something like that

3
Rep
-15
Offline
14:32 Aug-31-2017

lol very expensive for console no one will buy!!!

0
Rep
37
Offline
15:06 Aug-31-2017

They released a xbox one elite for 500 and they gonna release the one x for 500
But they need console buyers because for now there are far more ps4 owners. Funny though thats because of the exclusive games and not because the console was better to beginn

0
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
15:29 Aug-31-2017

We know quite a lot about it spec-wise, actually. Just read Digital Foundry's articles on it like this for e.g. And this one. RX 580 is a 36 CU (2304 SPs) Polaris GPU, the one MS is using is a 40 CU (2560 SPs) Polaris GPU running at 1172 MHz with 384-bit bus mem interface for 326 GB/s bandwidth and plenty of memory available for devs to use PC equivalent highest quality textures that require 6-8GB VRAM. They've cut corners on the CPU side to keep the costs down. It's still an upclocked Jaguar.

3
Rep
97
Offline
admin approved badge
23:15 Aug-31-2017

expensive for consoles and no one will buy? it sold out on amazon shortly after announced preorders. in that amount of time it outsold ps4 pro on amazon. it became the fastest selling console on amazon ever.

1
Rep
1,041
Offline
senior admin badge
09:40 Sep-01-2017

Md_Rayan those articles are couple months old and may not represent actual mass-production config, similarly as game devs downgrade graphics of final games compared to fancy gameplay demos, this is most likely inevitable,
also 384bit vram bus would be very power consuming, moreover those supposedly 12GB vram is shared with ram, so the memory distribution is still a big unknown, and game devs admitted to be limited to just a fraction of actual console resources,
also those 8 cpu cores are actually kind of 2 core blocks, so something like Core i3 with quad-threading, nothing impressive performance-wise to be honest,
low clocks across all components are again essential to keep consumption and heat low, internal 245W psu is barely enough to drive nowadays 580 gpu alone, so the compromises negatively affecting performance are unquestionable

0
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
16:59 Sep-01-2017

@Tzzsmk Those articles were written after their (DigitalFoundry's) visit to Redmond invited by MS themselves to officially reveal the full specs of Xbox One X through them. Therefore it's 100% representative of actual mass-production config. No doubt about it. I guess you didn't read them. Also, it's actually a 44 CU (2816 SPs) Polaris GPU. One X devkits have access to all 44 CUs, the retail units come with 4 CUs disabled. We also know the amount of memory available to devs for games. Out of 12GB GDDR5, 9GB is for games alone, 3GB is reserved for the system. More here. Another DF's article.

2
Rep
1,041
Offline
senior admin badge
12:29 Sep-02-2017

see, so of 9GB, how much is provided for graphics and how much for ram?

0
Rep
319
Offline
admin badge
13:34 Sep-02-2017

I don't think it's separated. It's like an APU. The memory is unified and can be used for both. Just the sum needs to remain at 9gb.

0
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
10:28 Sep-03-2017

1/2 How much of 9GB is shared between GPU and CPU as VRAM and system RAM will depend from dev to dev, their engine, games etc. Remember it's an APU. It doesn't have a separate memory like typical gaming PC does. DDR3/4 system RAM for CPU and GDDR5/5X/HBM VRAM dedicated just for the GPU. It's a single pool of 12GB GDDR5 for its APU.


On vanilla PS4 and XB1, devs have access to just 5GB out of total 8GB (GDDR5 on PS4, DDR3 in OG XB1) for games alone. With that 5GB GDDR5, Killzone SF devs for e.g. have used 3GB as video memory to store textures, render targets, meshes typical stuff that goes into GPU VRAM. And 1.5GB as system memory to store physics meshes, sound, particles, AI, animation...

2
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
10:28 Sep-03-2017

2/2 ...animation data and various assets that's typically stored in a PC's system RAM for the CPU to access.


The amount a dev should utilize as video memory or system memory isn't fixed. KZ:SF devs needed 3GB as VRAM, other devs will use for e.g. 2.5GB, 3.5GB... And the rest as system memory depending on the games they're creating.


One thing I've noticed. Every game on PS4 (and XB1) I've analysed so far, use texture quality equivalent to the textures that use upto 3-4GB VRAM on PC. In Rise of the TR, texture quality on PS4 & XB1 is equivalent to "High". "Very High" requires more than 4GB, which the XB1X version will be using while rendering at native 4K without cb or anything.

2
Rep
191
Offline
junior admin badge
15:02 Sep-03-2017

@Md_Rayan Do you think that future consoles will use HBM2, GDDR5X memory or stick with GDDR5? I'm aware that the with the current price of the consoles, that this isn't a valid option for the time being, but considering future advances it might be possible.

0
Rep
97
Offline
admin approved badge
17:57 Sep-03-2017

considering that the prices of gpus is about to go up because gddr5/gddr5x production for them is being cut, id say hbm in some form will become the prevalent memory. plus able to keep the ram cooler and the system smaller makes sense.

1
Rep
191
Offline
junior admin badge
21:30 Sep-03-2017

A valid point. I still remember seeing the FURY card for the first time, and I couldn't believe just how small it was considering it's power.

0
Rep
1,041
Offline
senior admin badge
16:59 Sep-04-2017

@Md_Rayan fair enough I guess, if every dev can freely decide on ram+vram allocation, then at least they have performance in their own hands :)
might offer some potential for future scalability where devs could re-issue their games with more memory to be accessed with newer console revision eventually...

0
Rep
58
Offline
08:37 Aug-31-2017

ofcourse the head of xbox will say that. It will still remain a console

4
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
08:03 Aug-31-2017

On the GPU, RAM, memory bandwidth side, yeah, I'd say it's up there or comes close to a high-end gaming PC. CPU? Not even close. I'd go as far as to say that the CPU inside One X is even lower-end than what we today consider to be an entry-level budget gaming CPUs i.e. Intel G4560 or any quad-core Ryzens etc.


This is what's keeping the cost down for MS. Otherwise it'd be selling for $600 or potentially even higher, like a similarly specced gaming PC. And that's why you'll see devs shoot for the highest resolution possible and 30fps more often than not. Because solid 60fps isn't possible in CPU-heavy titles, even at lower resolutions like 1080p. Same thing with PS4 Pro as well.

7
Rep
7
Offline
06:48 Aug-31-2017

He is definitely smoking something lol.

4
Rep
1
Offline
10:49 Aug-31-2017

Yea lol

0
Rep
10
Offline
06:09 Aug-31-2017

Still not enough for 4K @ 60fps. Get wrecked.

4
Rep
4
Offline
01:58 Sep-01-2017

Can't wait for that 4k 24 fps on low graphics lol

1
Rep
1
Offline
11:28 Sep-05-2017

Yea that's what I've been telling everyone, it will either be 4K at low graphics or framerate or upscaled 1080P.

0
Rep
65
Offline
admin approved badge
18:52 Sep-05-2017

@Fara4561, @DNMgamez No. Ever heard of checkerboard rendering, dynamic resolution? Graphics are usually in the region of PC's "High" setting on consoles. Rise of the tomb raider on Xbox One X runs using gfx quality equivalent to High with Very High textures at native 4K.

0
Rep
97
Offline
admin approved badge
05:52 Aug-31-2017

Then again. Consoles are limited.
Besides, the quality of games matter. Like the optimization on it running effectively on a GPU.

0
Rep
50
Offline
07:09 Aug-31-2017

think of how Apple does things, every app and program made for MacOS and iOS is designed to run well on a very limited number of hardware combinations, thus a MacBook Pro with integrated graphics can edit and render videos at 1440P just as well as a beastly Ryzen 7/1080Ti SLi rig can (see Science Studio). Having an ecosystem that tight significantly improves optimization and speed of development

0
Rep
97
Offline
admin approved badge
07:26 Aug-31-2017

That is true.


Here's how i think it goes.
The more you branch out an app/game to different platforms, the more work and effort you gotta put to make sure it runs as well as i can.

1
Rep
8
Offline
22:43 Aug-30-2017

When the games optimizations are so bad it doesn't matter if you are running it on 1080 TI with 45-60 fps or with gtx 760 on low with 30-60 fps. Until developers find a way to make the game better it doesn't matter if it's high end PC or high end console. All that matter is QUALITY.

0
Rep
50
Offline
06:04 Aug-31-2017

exactly, frame timing is so vital nowadays, I'm will that argue all day that short frame times even with lower frame rates is superior to high frame rates and longer frame times; Soma is like this for me, I regularly sit at 110FPS average, it looks smooth but not perfect, Subnautica (being horribly optimized in itself except for frame times) actually is smoother while averaging low 40's, the story is the same with NMS, low FPS short FT's, Fear 3 is a counter point

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
22:19 Aug-30-2017

and that's why you do NOT use FLOPs to compare gaming performance.
FLOPs only take into a count the core count and core clock speed of the GPU, disregarding the TMUs, ROPs, memory bit rate, memory clock speeds and memory bus, tessellation engines, asynchronous engines, geometry engines and various others, which are all needed for gaming.


Also with those CPUs in the Xbox One X Scorpio and PS4 Pro, you can only compare them to a 50$ athlon x4 740 Rrig :D

3
Rep
97
Offline
admin approved badge
23:18 Aug-30-2017

Even though jaguar has a core arrangement similar to piledriver and it's successors, they don't share resources.

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
10:30 Aug-31-2017

except that jaguar has much less resources and execution units, with the ALUs and AGUs having lower IPC, but the FPU having the same IPC, plus the fact that they are NOT sharing resources lends them a performance improvement compared to the bulldozer family CPUs.

0
Rep
93
Offline
00:25 Aug-31-2017

Exactly, when will Sony and MS learn that more Tflops =/= More performance.

0
Rep
10
Offline
03:50 Aug-31-2017

Oh they know, trust me. People see all those commercials screaming "6TFLOPs" in their faces and comparisons to modern pc hardware and then they throw their money at pre-orders without thinking much about it, because "The all new xbox one x has 6TFLOPS and 4k OMG OMG LEL!!!!!111one"... It is all a disgusting marketing strategy to fool the masses.

2
Rep
37
Offline
09:42 Aug-31-2017

Sometimes i read stuff on gd like ohh no if the new vega card is faster than my 1080 i gonna have to worry... like the card suddenly stops working if there is a faster card. Many pc gamers dont now nothing about hardware and that annoys me more than it should

0
Rep
386
Offline
admin approved badge
15:15 Aug-31-2017

Tacese exactly!

0
Rep
319
Offline
admin badge
20:54 Aug-30-2017

Well... If you ask me, it's high time console players started caring about the way they are playing their game and not just the game itself (exclusive or otherwise) because it really affects the experience. It's just that they never had much of a choice so they didn't give it much thought I think. This Xbox one X seems to be a step towards the right direction. I still hate the name they chose for it though xD

2
Rep
95
Offline
20:49 Aug-30-2017

Like everyone here has already said, you better pick your battles. If you're gonna brag about something, it can't be in an area where you have no shot at winning. At least the PS4 has exclusives.

5
Rep
179
Offline
admin approved badge
20:28 Aug-30-2017

I'd say the Scorpio is now pretty much where the PS4 was when it originally released..... the Scorpio has the equivalent of a Radeon RX 480/580 midrange GPU, the PS4 had the equivalent of a Radeon HD 7850 midrange GPU..... they've definitely improved their position over where they were with the original Xbox One which was weaker than the PS4.... but this is nothing amazing really.

1
Rep
37
Offline
09:44 Aug-31-2017

When i play infamous second son on my ps4 its as beautiful as a game can be. Ps4 exclusive games look way to good in my opinion and i dont even have a ps4 pro. Sure there are stutters in dragon age and others but it could be worse so i try not to let that ruin the fun for me

0
Rep
14
Offline
20:19 Aug-30-2017

At first I read the title without the "than ps4 pro" part and started laughing.

1
Rep
96
Offline
admin approved badge
19:00 Aug-30-2017

Doesn't matter which one has better performance at this point.
PS4 completely destroys Xbone when it comes to exclusives. This console generation is over.

12
Rep
191
Offline
junior admin badge
09:55 Aug-31-2017

Totally correct. The sheer number of ps4 games available, compared to the xbox ones is ridiculous at this point.

1
Rep
85
Offline
18:58 Aug-30-2017

If I am not wrong the 1060 is considered a mid end card and 1070 would come in beginning of the high end department. Right!
What would happen when the Volta/Vega arrives on the scene? Right now 1050ti is at par with 960.
A console is released like a gap of every 3-4 years while new PC hardware comes out almost every year.
They should be more interested in exclusives like Sony instead of boasting how a console can be as good as PC. I still use my PS3 to play Killzone, Uncharted and Gran Turismo.

4
Rep
26
Offline
18:46 Aug-30-2017

is it just me or do the CUDA Cores look like resolutions? 1920x1080? 1280x720? 1152x864? 1024 x 768?

4
Rep
136
Offline
02:42 Aug-31-2017

Probably because most computer hardware were built around the base-2 system, even resolution, RAM pool, etc.

0
Rep
94
Offline
18:39 Aug-30-2017

On the one side, it's great to see that console tries to keep up with pc, on the other hand, to keep pc alive, pc must be a step ahead, just because a pc is more expensive as a system (ofc it can do more than a console)

1

Can They Run... |

Core i5-9400F 6-Core 2.9GHz GeForce GTX 770 DirectCU II 2GB OC Edition 16GB
0% No [1 votes]
Pentium Dual Core B960 2.2GHz Radeon HD 6950M 4GB
0% No [1 votes]
| 60FPS, Medium, 720p
Athlon II X2 245 GeForce GTS 250 4GB
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Ryzen 5 3500U 4-Core 2.1 GHz Radeon RX Vega 8 8GB
| 60FPS, High, 720p
Core i5-2400S 2.5GHz Radeon R5 340 (OEM) 4GB
| High, 720p
Core i5-2400S 2.5GHz Radeon R5 340 (OEM) 4GB
100% Yes [1 votes]
Ryzen 5 3500U 4-Core 2.1 GHz Radeon RX Vega 8 8GB
100% Yes [1 votes]
| 30FPS, Medium, 720p
Ryzen 5 3500U 4-Core 2.1 GHz Radeon RX Vega 8 10GB
| 30FPS, High, 1080p
Core i3-8100 4-Core 3.6GHz GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 16GB
100% Yes [4 votes]
| 60FPS, Ultra, 1080p
Ryzen 7 5800H 8-Core 3.2GHz GeForce RTX 3060 Mobile 32GB
100% Yes [5 votes]
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Ryzen 7 5800H 8-Core 3.2GHz GeForce RTX 3060 Mobile 16GB
100% Yes [1 votes]
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Core i7-4770K 4-Core 3.5GHz GeForce GTX 980 4GB 32GB
100% Yes [3 votes]
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Ryzen 7 5800H 8-Core 3.2GHz GeForce RTX 3060 Mobile 16GB
100% Yes [2 votes]
| 60FPS, Ultra, 1080p
Core i5-10400F 6-Core 2.90GHz GeForce RTX 3060 Ti MSI Ventus 2X 8GB 16GB
100% Yes [7 votes]
| 60FPS, Medium, 1080p
Core i7-10700F 8-Core 2.9GHz GeForce GTX 970 Gigabyte G1 Gaming 4GB Edition 16GB
100% Yes [3 votes]
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Core i5-11400F 6-Core 2.6GHz GeForce GTX 1650 Super 4GB 16GB
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Core i7-3770 4-Core 3.4GHz GeForce GTX 1650 Super 4GB 16GB
0% No [1 votes]
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Core i7-4770K 4-Core 3.5GHz GeForce GTX 980 4GB 32GB
100% Yes [2 votes]
| 60FPS, High, 1080p
Ryzen 7 5800H 8-Core 3.2GHz GeForce RTX 3060 Mobile 16GB
100% Yes [1 votes]
| 30FPS, Medium, 1080p
Xeon E3-1230 GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Gigabyte G1 Gaming 4GB 16GB
100% Yes [1 votes]