Radeon VII Capable of DLSS Technique Using DirectML Says AMD, 'Too Early to Use Raytracing'

Written by Jon Sutton on Fri, Jan 18, 2019 3:08 PM

AMD could have a few interesting tricks up its sleeves with its upcoming Radeon VII graphics card according to Adam Kozak, senior marketing manager of AMD’s GPU division.

Kozak has claimed AMD has been “experimenting” with Windows ML/DirectML and Luxmark and suggests AMD's Radeon VII is capable of DLSS-like super-resolution support. He even claims AMD’s own Radeon VII can outstrip the GeForce RTX 2080’s performance by 62% in Luxmark’s OpenCL-based ray tracing render tests.

Windows ML, or Windows Machine Learning, is a method by which machine learning can be used to provide GPU hardware acceleration through the DirectML API using DirectX technology. There are a number of techniques that DirectML can take advantage of, including support for super-resolutions, animation techniques, and denoising. The super-resolution support is a technique that sounds very similar to Nvidia’s own DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling), utilising deep learning techniques to identify repeatedly used polygons and textures, essentially pre-calculating where the GPU performance needs to be directed.

The AMD Radeon VII has already certified for use with DirectML, the graphics extension for DX12.

The original interview with Kozak comes by way of 4Gamer.net, a Japanese-language gaming site. This means the translation from English to Japanese and back again is definitely a little rough, and something to bear in mind.

“[At] last year's GDC 2018, Microsoft announced a framework "Windows ML" for developing machine learning based applications on the Windows 10 platform, and "DirectML" that makes it available from DirectX,” said Kozak. “We are currently experimenting with obtaining the evaluation version SDK of DirectML, but Radeon VII shows excellent results in that experiment.

“By the way, Radeon VII scored about 1.62 times the GeForce RTX 2080 in "Luxmark" which utilizes OpenCL-based GPGPU-like ray tracing renderer. Based on these facts, I think NVIDIA's DLSS-like thing can be done with GPGPU-like approach for our GPU.”

While not strictly the same as Nvidia’s DLSS, if AMD can get an approximation of DLSS up and running without the use of Tensor Cores this potentially bodes well for the Radeon VII’s capabilities. At the moment, DLSS is the key differentiator between the Radeon VII and the GeForce RTX 2080, aside from the $100 price different.

In addition to the DLSS chatter, Kozak also had a few words to say on ray-tracing, a technology which he believes just isn’t ready yet as it can only be used by a tiny fraction of PC gamers.

“I understand the importance of DXR, but I think it is too early to use it in games. Ray tracing is useful for professional video production sites, but there is Radeon Pro Render for such applications. The [only compatible game] is Battlefield V, and the 3DMark Port Royale benchmarks also. It will be unrelated to 99% of gamers. It is an understanding that there is little benefit for gamers so far.”

It's a fair point, although if Nvidia continues to make impressive strides with RTX optimisation and performance it could become moot. It's the DLSS-like features that have us interested for now though, and whether AMD is actually planning to support the technique anytime soon.

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09:11 Jan-19-2019

Where were those people who are bitching about Nvidia DLSS?

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09:32 Jan-19-2019

whoever had a problem with DLSS? It's just ray tracing... I've been a fan of Tensor Cores since the Titan V where people actually hated on it...

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09:57 Jan-19-2019

I've read it somewhere in one of the post on this site. People were comparing DLSS and comparing it to something like lower resolutions. But now both Chip maker implement it. Can they bitching the same way they bitching with Nvidia RTX? I don't think so.

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16:42 Jan-24-2019

Well the thing is that nvidia implemented it through Tensor Cores, which makes games not lose performance, while AMD has to use their stream processors to do so and might lose performance, but they say they won't, I'm assuming they will use FP64 and/or FP16 cores to do DLSS if possible through them.
And yes DLSS is for lower resolutions, for most 1080p panels and for 1440p and 4k, in general, it's pointless as it is indeed anti-aliasing.

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16:42 Jan-24-2019

And their problem is that those customers who won't use it are paying for something they won't be using, on top of that lack of support overall for DLSS.

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06:54 Jan-19-2019

AMD's getting ready to kick some major ass.

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04:30 Jan-21-2019

We have to wait for Navi

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05:37 Jan-21-2019

Wait™

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02:51 Jan-19-2019

I hope nvidia let us use dlss through Directml api too on pascal and older gpus

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07:46 Jan-19-2019

Maybe after a few years. Just like freesync.

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04:31 Jan-21-2019

Doubt it, Nvidia is too ANTI-consumer and old tech to be worrying about having dlss on older gpus.

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16:39 Jan-24-2019

Nvidia is not 'anti-consumer'.
They are pro-money just like every other big company.

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16:43 Jan-24-2019

but they are indeed anti-consumer, except pro-money.
All companies are pro-money, no matter big or small, the definition of a Company is an organization with a goal of making a profit.

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19:54 Jan-18-2019

The test he would be speaking of isn't gaming performance but a compute performance benchmark, VEGA 64 already is increadibly powerful under compute loads so doesn't it make sense for his 62% uplift make sense? Not in gaming but in OpenCL. Plus maybe the 2080 is better if it uses its NVidia specific technology. He isn't lying but we have a lack of info.

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16:57 Jan-18-2019

Every year, we hear about AMD outperforming Nvidia and Intel, every year it turns out to be 100% bull****

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19:11 Jan-18-2019

Beating INTEL for sure. NVidia too in mid-range. So, Cow

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19:25 Jan-18-2019

Well, I will give you a hint. AMD doesn't say that, people do... why do you believe the hype from some people with no arguments, logic and stats?

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23:28 Jan-18-2019

The expectations came from fanboys, not AMD themselves. I never look at expectations and speculations, only launch dates and 3rd-party reviews.

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04:32 Jan-21-2019

You do know that AMD is beating Intel and is getting ready to beat Nvidia to submission as well.

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16:45 Jan-18-2019

I love AMD, but these kinds of claims are really the ones I would like to see evidence of before I believe them, especially to do with out performing RTX cards at ray tracing.

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15:43 Jan-18-2019

I mean it's kinda pointless if they can do DLSS and lose performance. Even if they can do it through raw compute and in theory not lose performance, it's a wait and see game...

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15:43 Jan-18-2019

Not bad. More open standards is a great thing, though that just ends up benefiting Nvidia more, since their cards run their own stuff AND the open standards.

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04:34 Jan-21-2019

Barely even close, it makes G-Sync monitors a waste of money when it comes to production.
Open standards means that would be the industry standard and not GPU specific exclusive.

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